Sell People What They Want | Growth & Mindset Lessons From Girona Mastermind Retreat

Today, James Humphries-Stone and Jack Durkin reflect on their recent business and mindset retreat in Girona, Spain, sharing the powerful lessons and takeaways that are already changing their business, relationships, and approach to estate agency.

Inside the episode:

• Why they invest heavily in masterminds outside of estate agency
• The importance of putting yourself in new rooms to gain fresh perspectives
• How avoiding problems creates voids in your business and relationships
• The communication technique of standing side by side with clients to tackle problems together
• Why your value is determined by your impact, not your input
• How to use powerful questions to control conversations and increase conversions
• The importance of giving clients choices to keep control
• Why estate agents should share case studies and the full journey rather than just “another exchange” posts
• How referrals and recommendations build businesses on autopilot

💬 “While the customer is choosing, you are in control.”

They also share:

• The story of negotiating their way onto the retreat without knowing it was included
• The benefits of spending time away from the business to reset and gain clarity
• How their agency has grown exponentially by learning from outside industries

If you’re serious about personal growth, mastering communication, and building a business based on impact rather than volume, this episode will be transformational.

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Transcript

Welcome to another episode of the Elite Agent Masterclass with me, James Humphrey-Stone, and my co-host, Mr. Jack Durkin. How are you, mate? Very good, mate. Very good. Enjoying the hot weather. I mean, it is very hot, and although we can't complain because everyone moans when Britain is wet and cold, and now we've got some really hot weather, everyone's moaning it's too hot, so I'm not going to moan about it. It's great. I think we've bought it back from them. Spain when we went over there a few weeks back. What a fantastic segue, which is exactly the purpose of this pod recording. So for those of you listening in, you may or may not be aware, Jack and I are a part of a mastermind community. We invest a sizable amount of money every year into being a part of this community because we are very firm believers in personal development and growth. And I suppose in many ways, mixing it up around the rooms that we're in and what I mean there is is that the mastermind we're a part of is outside of the property industry and and I don't know about you jack I don't know whether you you feel the same way but I personally believe that since we've been a part of this mastermind our business has grown exponentially because of a number of things but one of the main ones is being able to see things through a different lens when you're listening to different business owners talk about how they run their businesses and you kind of go huh I feel like that could work for us and no one else is doing it what do you think Yeah, I think, well, one of our core values is growth always, isn't it? So it would be silly for us not to invest ourselves in coaching and personal development and business development. But yeah, I totally agree. I think being surrounded by other like-minded business owners drives you and it's definitely had a huge impact on where we've taken the business from when we joined Expo Empires to where we are now. But you're totally right. I think I look at businesses now that businesses are all the same. They just offer a different service or a different product. But the actual structure of business is very, very similar. And we've been able to take so much away from other businesses that we've seen and do things very differently with our estate agency because we've managed to get ideas outside of estate agency. Because let's be honest, estate agents, most estate agency brands can be quite archaic and there isn't really innovation as much in the state agency or hasn't been up until now. So taking ideas from other industries, I think has really helped us develop new ideas, new strategies, new plans, and massively helped us grow. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And so as part of our membership with the mastermind group, um, we got the privilege to go on a retreat a couple of weekends ago in Girona, um, about Little inside secret here. Jack and I, when we did the renewal, they've got an unbelievable salesperson there. Like if we could convince him to come and work with us, we one hundred percent would. He's brilliant. And so Jack is also a fantastic negotiator. So good that Jack didn't know that as part of our renewal that he had negotiated the retreat into the deal. So we got an email about six weeks before the retreat was due to happen from the person that heads up all of the organizational stuff. saying right hi chaps um just wanted to check where are you flying in from when you come to drone or on the retreat we're like oh shit we're going on the retreat that's amazing and so um it came as a bit of a a bit of a shock a bit of a surprise um and if you're really honest jack if you knew what that weekend was going to entail would you have gone probably not so um and that's me being totally honest um I think the The coaching and the development part of the retreat was very much around mindset, relationships as well, which for me wasn't something I necessarily thought I needed or, well, it wasn't something I wanted. And I wasn't sure it was something that I needed. But in actual fact, we've taken so much away from that weekend that has been really, really valuable. Also, as well, we got to spend the weekend in an unbelievable hotel overlooking a golf course, which me and James had the opportunity to go and play, which was great. The weather was amazing. Hacked our way around. Yeah, hacked our way around the course. Feel sorry for the green keepers. But it was an enjoyable day. And yeah, I'm there. environment that was in was was great the people were surrounded by um were great as well um so yeah came away from it feeling very very refreshed um I mentioned to you earlier I think it's it's really important uh we've been working really hard on the business over the past uh well Six months since January this year, really putting new things in place, building and helping our agents. And I think it's really, really important for us to go away and just have some time away from the business to enjoy ourselves. And it was a real refresh. That I think we really needed. I think it's really important for anyone that's working really hard right now to make sure you reward yourself for your hard work. Even if it's just a small reward for the actions that you put in, if you take yourself for a nice meal or you go on and have a spa day or just do something to relax and unwind. Because when you're working so hard, it's really important to have that downtime as well. It's got to be worth it, hasn't it? And I think that's the reason why we wanted to record this episode as a reflection on the retreat so that we could share some of the value that we got from that weekend with the audience that listens in. But as an aside, for anyone that is looking for an unbelievable breakaway, then the Camaral Golf and Wellness Resort in Spain, in Girona, is incredible. It's just ten or so minutes from the airport, so it's an easy run. I mean, just to give some context to those listening in, We entered our room. We checked in. We each had our own rooms. You walk in the room and you've got your standard stuff. You know, you've got your fully stocked fridge with all the treats and drinks and whatever. You've then got your room service menu. But then next to the room service menu, I was like, huh, what's that? And it was a pillow menu. So you had a choice for like eight or nine different pillows that you could call down to reception and have delivered up to your room. So it was a really, really fantastic experience. And then couple that with the environment that they had created. And I'm with you, Jack, I suppose. I don't know what I was going into that weekend expecting, but when you add the word retreat to it, I anticipated there was going to be mindset work and there was going to be some R&R time. But the shares that we want to give, I suppose, were around the relationship piece that you touched on. And that could be working relationship, relationships at home, relationships with siblings, whatever. But also some of the mindset stuff. So where do you want to start on that, Jack? I think that... The main point for me, the main point that I really took away from it was the relationship, and more importantly around relationships was around communication. And I think it was delivered in a way around personal relationships, your partner, wife, husband, however, it was also very relatable to many of the different types of relationships. We took a lot away from our relationship and how we communicate. I also took a lot away from how we communicate with our agents and our partners. And I think for a lot of agents that are listening in, it was a really, really valuable exercise around communication, which I think is really important when you're working with clients and how you communicate with your clients. One of the key points was around when there is a problem and an issue rather than attacking it against each other, attack it together and look at that problem as if you're working alongside each other. So when you've got a seller that has an issue and it could be the issue is that they're not selling their property right now, the property isn't selling. rather than then coming and trying to attack you that it's not selling and you kicking back and you know it becoming a bit of um frustration building up let's look at the problem together let's look at right okay so the property isn't selling there's three areas that could that could be the marketing the presentation and or the price so and it In this, it's deciding who has responsibility over which problem. So marketing is down to the agent and the agent should open up feedback from their client as to what they feel is missing. But it's the agent's decision as to what the final say so is so if there we had a client recently but that wanted to change when the photos and the photo looked awful we made the decision not to add that photo in despite the seller wanting to add it being added in but we made the final call on on the marketing when it comes to presentation it's a seller's home so they have the final call on the presentation however the agent should be giving them advice on what that needs to look like and they should be working together to try and make sure that it's in the best presentation and again the price that commit it together and look at the problem together rather than attacking each other and I think that was one of the main things that I took away from the retreat I think communication I think that's really good feedback I think the and and they drew it out visually didn't they on the flip chart and it's like you know rather than it being a clash try to isolate the problem. And I'm very visual as are you, right? So I'm trying to, for those listening, I'm trying to create a visual for them. So if you imagine you've got the problem and you extract it and you place it, ten feet away from you, and then you go and stand next to your client and you look at the problem together and go, okay, cool. So Jack, we have a problem here. And look, we're on the same page. So I want to make sure that we can overcome this problem together. So let's tackle it together. And so here's the issue. Here are the things we need to consider from my perspective. Is there anything you'd like to add to that that you feel we need to consider to attack this problem? OK, cool. So there are the issues. This is how we should possibly then approach that problem. And here's the next steps. How do you feel about that? And then all of a sudden it changes the whole dynamic of the issue, doesn't it? um because you're not I think if you can remove the ego for a minute because clients get frustrated we get frustrated don't we we're human beings we're huge you get frustrated so when the client is getting frustrated I feel that there's a step that they shared with us over the course of the weekend and again very visual there's a step that comes before the frustration And that is, and the way they drew it out, is if you avoid a problem, if you avoid a challenge, if you avoid a situation, then it creates a void. And that really sat with me. To avoid something creates a void. And so if, as an agent, you've got a client that you know needs to reduce their price, let's use the price as the best example here. Rather than avoid the problem and keep kicking the can down the road, they've not had viewings for weeks and weeks and weeks on end, pick up the phone and use this approach where you kind of go, okay, I foresee, Mr. or Mrs. Client, that we have a problem in front of us. You're not getting any viewings. I can imagine you're now getting really frustrated by the process because you've told me how keen you are to move forward. So have you got some time today for us to just discuss the problem we face together and how we can put that right? How do you think a client's going to react? Yeah, I think if you can, like you said, tackle that earlier on, then the problem doesn't get bigger, does it? The longer you lead it and the longer you create that for you, the more that problem builds up and the more frustration that builds up. And then when you do attack that problem, it's attacked against each other rather than feeling as though you're on the same team. So having those difficult conversations are really, really key and really important. It's so, so important to not avoid having those conversations and make sure those conversations had. One of our agents, Chris, and when this analogy was shared on the screen and the problem was there and two people were coming at it, it just reminded me of Chris sharing one of his approaches when he's looking at price as part of the valuation. And he physically goes and sits alongside the sellers and makes sure that he looks at the price together with them. and looks at all the other price valuations they've been given from previous agents and they make a decision together in terms of where they believe the price should sit and chris will give his feedback the seller will give their feedback but they come at it together and make a decision together as one rather than chris having his price the seller having his price and both being set on what they want to achieve and there's no budging um And when that was shared at the retreat, that's what it reminded me of, as I said. You can imagine it. It was drawn on the screen for us, so it's very easy for us to visualize. If you can imagine it, you're sitting alongside the person that you face the problem with, and you're coming at it from the same team, and you're looking at a problem, and you're going to solve it together. There's two of you there to solve the problem, rather than two individuals attacking the problem, making it worse. A hundred percent. I think the other thing that really reminded me of something that came from the retreat as well is the language that we use as well. So I suppose we're using price as the only thing here, but let's just stick with it for the minute. So the language piece, because a large proportion of communication Has nothing to do with them necessarily. The words is quite often the tonality, the body language associated if there's a face to face interaction. But coming back to the words piece, when there's a problem, rather than it being a case of you need to consider X, you need to consider reducing your price, Jack, or you need to consider making this. We we need to look at this together. But I'm on the same team. I'm with you. Language is so, so important. And then the tonality with which we deliver it. If you bowl into a conversation with someone really fast-paced, hey, Jack, hope you're well. Need to have a chat. Really think you need to reduce your price. Lots of houses coming on the market that are similar to yours and they're lower priced. What do you reckon? You're going to go back off. If you come at it with a slightly calmer, slower pace and you use language like we rather than you, I think language, like you said, is so, so important. And if it was positioned that way to me, and I know you're very, very similar, that would completely put me off because I don't like being told what I want to do is find a solution together. And in fact, if I come up with the answer myself, then I'm more likely to want to go with that idea. So language using we and making it working alongside each other But also, rather than telling them they need to reduce the price, what would happen if we didn't get this sold? What would happen to your onwards plans? And asking them a question, would you be comfortable with an adjustment in the price if it meant getting your X, Y, Z result? And asking questions as opposed to being direct is a much better way, a much better approach, I believe, as to getting you the result that you need and, of course, the seller's result that they're looking for as well. The reason I midway. So for those listening in midway through what Jack was saying now, I kind of grabbed my head and was like, I wanted to speak. But obviously, Jack had a lot of value he was sharing. So I stayed quiet. And the reason for that is I'd written three things down. I'd taken away from the retreat that I wanted to share on this episode. But as we're talking, more and more things from the retreat are flooding back. Yeah. The next thing that came from it that really sat with me is what you've just touched on there, asking powerful questions. Don't be so direct all the time. You don't need to be a bull in a china shop. Ask questions. And the more the other person is talking, the more control you have over the situation. So work out how to ask really powerful questions. That was something else that I sat and I listened to Matt deliver it. And he is, I've no doubt you'd agree, he is unbelievable when it comes to asking powerful questions. And you sit there and you go, he has just sold me something and I have no idea how. But I trust that he's done it in the right way because I'm the one that's given all the answers. It's true, isn't it? Yeah, so much so. He will ask a question and then just... zip it and just let let you talk and let you explain and then he'll lead off the back of what you said with a follow-up question and a follow-up question until a point where that he sold you and he hasn't even spoken and I think that is so key isn't it if you could just ask questions ask questions ask questions and the client themselves sell themselves on what you're telling them because you've asked the right questions then you don't even have to pitch like The clients pitch themselves and you just led them to doing that. And it's going to be a much easier way to close. Here's a powerful question. I suppose we're saying use powerful questions. People might well be sitting listening. Give me a powerful question to consider. And so the first one that springs to my mind for a state agency in particular is what drew you to contacting us? our business in the first place? And then when they answer, so it might be a case of, oh, I've seen your content on social media, or I've seen your property adverts on Rightmove, and I think they particularly stand out, or my friend referred you. I'm just thinking of things that we get told off the top of my head. Okay, cool. So if it was social media, for example, what was it that you particularly like about our social media? And then they start telling you about how they love the reels and they love the fact that you do the coming soon pre-launch content. Amazing. And so would you like something similar to be done for your home when you put it on the market? Absolutely. That's why. And then they're selling themselves already. We had one last week, actually, where I asked that very question. What is it that attracted you to reaching out and speaking to us? And it was that we'd sold a house down the road. So the follow-up question was, OK, great. Well, are you aware of what we achieved for that house? And they said, we've got an idea. But I explained to them, this is what we achieved. And then the follow-up question to that was, if we could achieve a similar result for you, Would that give you the reason to want to work with us? And the answer was yes. And it was then a case of we still went through it. Yeah, we went through the process and shared some more stuff in terms of what we could do. But I feel like it was that question that really closed things. We signed things up a little bit later, but it was really that question, I think, that closed things. So asking those really powerful questions, I think, are really important. And I think if any estate agents listening in, if you aren't asking that question, if it isn't a staple part of your question process when you're talking to a client, what made you get in touch with us in the first place? If you don't understand the answer to that question and dig a little bit deeper on it, then start doing it. Because people, there's a phrase called WIFM, what's in it for me, right? That's what that stands for, W-I-I-F-M. People do not give two hoots about you basically vomiting on them around everything that you can do for them. They don't care. They want to know what's in it for them. So by asking that question, everything that then follows can be connected to that very original question of these are the reasons why they were drawn to you in the first place. it makes life so much easier so yeah powerful questions I think that would be a big one um there was one final thing for me and what from the communication was a big thing for me from the retreat um was there anything else for you that really hit home yeah so I suppose I took it, there were three statements. There was loads that I took from it, but there were three statements that were made that really stuck with me. And that is, to avoid a problem creates a void. The separating the problem and standing side by side with the person that is sharing that problem and attacking the problem together, not attacking each other. And then the final one, which we haven't really touched on yet, is that your value should be determined by your impact, not your input. that one probably sat the heaviest because when you actually unpack that what it means at its root is if you can have huge impact on people's lives in some way shape or form so in our scenario by helping people move to the next chapter in their lives I think as estate agents we belittle sometimes how important the role is that we play like people don't move not many people move and find it super easy or there are big life-changing reasons why they're doing it And so I think if we just remind ourselves that that is so important to these people in that moment in their lives, and we are the ones that are able to impact that. And so therefore, our value should be associated to our impact. Whereas counterintuitively, the input piece is the traditional. I'm using the word traditional mindset of a state agency where it's like volume, volume, volume, market share. numbers on boards rather than treating them like human beings they're just another number great got another contract signed on to the next one and that's when you become an agent that is valued based on your input yes a lot of people don't look back and reflect on what they do that I think it's for a lot of agents that are just starting out they are all focused on input but then that never really changes I think to touch on that point one thing I don't think I see enough of personally, is the results that agents have achieved. I see loads of shares around new listings and new properties that they're about to launch the market and photos, videos for all that content. And we've spoken about it before. I'd love to see so much more of it, sharing the result that you've achieved for the client and I think that then has a knock on effect. We talk about eye laser and filling up your buckets, getting your leads in, your appointments, your sales, your exchanges, and your reviews. Your reviews, if you associate that with sharing your case studies and the success that you've had for a client, that will then fill back up your leads because the recommendations and referrals that you would get off the back of that win, that case study that you've not only had a, it's a win for you, it's a win for your clients as well. If you're able to share that with people, then it's going to fill that hopper back up because those new listings are going to come from your recommendations and referrals. And I'd love more agents to be sharing the successes that they've had for their clients and how they've helped them move. I totally agree. And I think that goes full circle back to impact, doesn't it? Because if you invest in that client and you take them on the journey and you help them through the bumps in the road and you help them through the wobbles that they have where they're like, I don't know whether this is the right thing and all that sort of stuff, which we've been there with a lot of clients, right? And you can be that support mechanism. The value that you then hold in that person's mind is is next level and then everyone they then come into contact with they they are literally walking talking billboards for your business and so that then means that your business can almost grow on autopilot But equally, your value should rise in line with that, because if people are coming to you as a referral, then you are not a one percent agent anymore. You aren't because people want you because you're the best, not because you're the cheapest, not because you've got the most boards up. They want you because their friends, someone that they confide in, they trust said there is no one else you should speak to except Jack. Your value and then your impact outweighs your input because you can do a fraction of the number of listings for a much greater reward. It's coming back to that point we spoke about earlier, isn't it? And not having to pitch because if you've been recommended or referred by someone else, they've already done the selling for you. They've already pitched your services and they've already pitched how great and amazing you are. So you're not having to pitch your service anymore. You're getting there. And nine times out of ten, like referrals and recommendations are tend to be straight instructions. It's already teed up for you. As long as you don't top the ball or miss your tee shot, then you're winning, aren't you? Absolutely. You can tell you're playing a lot of golf recently. I'm still missing a few tee shots. But yeah, I think it's really important. We've got an agent in the business, Emma, who all of her business comes from recommendations and referrals because she's so amazing at providing an amazing service and showcasing what she's done and asking for those recommendations and referrals to be passed on. So yeah, I would love to see more agents showcase their results and their their case studies and also the challenges that they've had that they've faced throughout the journey because like we know that from the outside looking in a property completes and you know it's been plain sailing but it's really not we know the challenges that that have gone on we know the bumps in the road and um what the agent may have had to help the sellers and the buyers overcome to get it over the line and so I think sharing more of those stories would be really important to really show your impact that you're having on not just your clients but the overall industry as well I think that's so true. I think, you know, rather than just another exchanged and completed post, you know, like you say, sharing the highs and the lows of that client's journey, sharing the why behind that client's move, you know, the downsizing after three years, this was a real wrench for them to make this move, but they knew it was the right one. but it didn't come with ease. There were several challenges that we had to overcome together along the way. Now, if you're then a homeowner that's considering downsizing and you read that, you're going to go, that's the agent I want in my corner. Yeah. That's the agent I want in my corner. I don't want the one that's, you know, Willie waving all over the place, telling you that they've just exchanged on their fifty second house that day. They don't want that. No, they want to know. the whole journey don't know I think that I shared on the flip side of that I shared a story the other day we just came off um a podcast with brian from gazelle um and I shared a story um of a challenge we had of a sale going through that actually fell through because we didn't have a we didn't put a reservation agreement in place the sellers didn't want to put that in place at the start and we didn't push hard enough on it and therefore the deal fell through after ten months which was really frustrating but I wanted to share that story because I want other clients and other agents and other people to learn from that we've certainly learned from it because we are now putting a reservation agreements in place with as many of our deals as possible to give buyers seller security and the agent the business security that it needs as well um But I really wanted to share that story with everyone because that had a huge impact on me, the clients and the business. And like I said, it was a big lesson, a big learn. So I think it's also important for agents to share the challenges and how they've overcome them. So it will be really useful for other agents to hear them and hear how they've overcome certain challenges throughout the sales process. Honestly, so much of what you're saying there is I'm so on board with it because I think imagine putting that as a social media piece for starters. It could be a video or it could be written copy, whatever. But just imagine then turning that into a direct mail piece, for example. And, you know, to the neighbours that will know the people that have moved. And so incorporating that little bit of a case study share around the challenges and what have you, because it's relatable. They know those owners of that house or they may have passed them when they're putting the bins out in the morning or whatever. So they can connect to that. And then if that little segment in there, you know, your neighbours at number twenty two. And now I move. We finally got them over the line, but it didn't come without its challenges. Here's what we had to go through, but we got them through the other side. If you're considering moving and you want an agent in your corner that knows how to get you over the line and support you all the way, then feel free to contact me. I'm like, that then pulls on the right strings. that isn't full circle that isn't you know contact me because I'll do it for half a percent or contact me because I've got ten percent over the asking price for the homeowner that isn't it it connects more on a deeper level so yeah I think that's a really really powerful point you've made there and I think the final one was more of a reminder because obviously we've been working with this mastermind group now for a good couple of years haven't we nearly three and so sometimes You don't need new. Sometimes you just need a reminder of what you already knew, but possibly to the back of your mind. And it was a statement that Matt, again, elite closer, while the customer is choosing, you are in control. And that for me is almost like a parting statement to this episode is that all the while your customer is making choices, you are in control of the process. And so thinking about that from an agent's point of view, how can you introduce questions? How can you introduce parts of your process that ensure the customer is choosing? Fees is one of them. Don't offer one fee, offer two. Give them the choice. Then ask the question of, it's option A, option B, which would you prefer? That is the easiest to deliver clothes that exists in our world. Which would you prefer? So that's sort of that analogy with a pen, sell me the pen analogy recently, where rather than just selling one pen, they have three pens and it's like, which color would you prefer? great they've then they've then chosen so I think we're both big believers of giving choice and that's how we position things with a lot of our agents isn't it give your clients choice around um as many moving parts of the process as you can and lead them and advise them on the ones that you think are best but allow them the choice I mean there's there's a lot of things we've covered we've covered communication and more so around language and powerful questions, having impact as well, as well as all the other bits that we've unpicked. And I think this will be really valuable. I think the big piece around communication and giving clarity and using the right language will really, really help many people. I've really enjoyed it. I'm glad we didn't know what the retreat entailed beforehand. I'm glad we attended. I suppose in many respects, they gave us what we wanted. Sorry, sold us what we wanted, gave us what we needed. And that is their strapline, right, isn't it? Sell people what they want and give them what they need. And I suppose coming away from it, we both went into it very open-minded. We've come away from it and gone, huh, that was brilliant. The way they delivered it, the environment they created. We haven't even touched on the group of people that were there. That was brilliant. You just felt like you were in the right room. So, yeah, if anyone listening into this gets the opportunity to partake in that type of environment... I would a hundred percent guarantee you that you will get a lot from it if you move towards it. So I've really enjoyed this. I've really enjoyed reminiscing on, on what we learned from that weekend and then trying to share it in a way that it's like digestible for those listening. So until next time, that is the elite agent masterclass. Thanks Jack. Thank you.