Build Better Brands | How to Elevate Your Estate Agency Marketing

In this episode of The Elite Agent Masterclass, James Humphries-Stone is joined by The Avenue’s Head of Marketing & Media, Ben Robinson.

For the first time on the mic, Ben shares the strategy behind the visuals—from videography to nurture campaigns and personal branding, this is everything an elite agent needs to know about building a premium presence.

You’ll discover:

• Why most agents get video marketing completely wrong
• How a 51-step process turns average listings into market leaders
• The true meaning of personal branding—and why it’s not just about posting stats
• How to use nurture marketing to warm cold leads into clients without ever chasing
• Why personal brand acts as both magnet and filter
• The pitfalls of being too vanilla—and why showing up as yourself is your superpower

If you’re serious about levelling up your estate agency brand and growing your influence in your local market, this conversation will change the way you show up and scale up.

🎧 Listen. Apply. Elevate.

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Transcript

Welcome to another episode of the Elite Agent Masterclass. Today, I am joined by the Head of Marketing and Media at the Avenue Estate Agents, Mr. Ben Robinson. How are you, mate? Yeah, very well, mate. It's nice to be this side of the camera for once. It's quite weird, actually. Makes a change. This is your very first pod recording, though. Very first. I'm hoping the stats fly up through the roof, so we'll see. So we wanted to get Ben onto the team pod to talk through all things marketing, media, personal brand building. Ben is the man behind the magic and the man behind the growth of the Avenue Estate Agents when it comes to all of the marketing and media. And so we wanted to drag him out from the other side of the lens and put his face on the camera so that people can hear from the horse's mouth exactly what it takes to to build beautiful marketing, to build brand and to build personal brand. So in amongst that introduction, I'm trying to think where we start here, Ben, because there's so much that we can unpack in relation to the process. Where would you say would be the first place we should go? Videography is your primary skill set. Let's start there. know what for me videography it's it's such a how do you even comprehend it it's such a wide widely used phrase these days I feel like a lot of agents are saying that they use professional marketing and professional videography but are they actually I'm I'm not entirely sure provocative within two minutes of the pod starting what makes you say that that's what I mean I think it's such like a an easy branded like thing to say to homeowners now that unless you don't really understand videography and understand what goes into it it's really easy to just say oh yeah they offer videography when it's not really what they offer so Okay, so give us an understanding of what you mean though. So what's the difference? What is it that you're doing? Because by the way, before we hit record, there was no pre-prepped plan. It never is pre-prepped because we want it to be raw and open. So I didn't know necessarily you were going to go there first. So what does someone listening in that wants to deliver premium marketing, wants to deliver proper videography in your eyes, what does that need to look like? The first word that come to my mind when you were speaking was storytelling. I feel like it's so, so important to sell the story of a home, to have a professional behind the camera like we do at The Avenue that can guide the agent on how to sell the story. Like videos, you can go as crazy as you want with videos. I mean, we've done some absolutely mental things over the past four years that some people don't like, but some people love. But that's what's made us stand out. And yeah, I feel like the main point that we really try and drive and train agents to do is tell the story of the home, sell the story of the home that someone will relate to that is going to want to buy it. It's a really interesting point, isn't it? Because I saw a piece of data recently and this wasn't connected to property. This was connected to people and their buying behavior. And eighty percent of the decision making is done through emotion. And then the remaining twenty percent of that decision is then supported by a logical analysis of the decision that's been made. So you make a really good point. If you lean, I suppose, too much into just giving the facts and the details of a property, you probably lose a part of the audience. Whereas if you lean into the story and lean into more of the emotional aspect of the home, then you're going to capture much more attention. Would that be fair? Yeah, I agree. And let's be honest, like every house has its slight unique selling point, but ultimately a house is a house. They're all going to have X amount of bedrooms. They're all going to have X amount of bathrooms. They're all going to have a living room. They're all going to have a kitchen. But how do you sell the lifestyle that that home offers to the client? And that's what I always really try and get across in our videos, sell the lifestyle of the home, not just the bricks and mortar of what it is. Interesting. So your first point would be to promote through video through the medium of storytelling. You obviously now have a team of videographers that work with you. what's the pro cause you're, although you're really creative, you're also quite a process led person. So what's the process. And we don't need to go like war and peace into like how you set your camera, but more when you go and do a shoot, you have a certain number of points you go through when you're doing a shoot. How many is it? Yes. Some people probably won't believe this, but we've got the document to prove it. I think we rounded it up. I think it was fifty one points in the end that we documented from literally point of when the appointment's booked to delivering the final marketing piece is roughly about fifty one. Fifty-one steps. Just give us a snapshot of what that looks like on the actual shoot itself. Because some people remember that the whole point of the Elite Agent Masterclass is to give people tools and implementable processes off the back of what they hear. So give us just a little bit of an insight. Obviously, we don't want to give all the secret sauce away, but just give us a little insight into the shoot itself, what you're capturing to give the agent and give the homeowner. Yes, I think the most important one, which I think a lot of agents don't, the kind of overlook is preparing the house for when we go there. Like I'm such a, you know what I'm like, I'm a perfectionist. Like I will move the slightest little thing that just doesn't look right. And don't be wrong. We understand that people, they leave, they live in properties. Like there's going to be stuff there, but it takes five minutes just to move the stuff and make the environment so clean and tidy, just allow the viewers to focus on the property, not looking at the mess potentially that could be around. And then going into the shoot itself, you know, it's all the little details, making sure the lights are on, making sure that everything's neat and tidy, making sure that the little aspects of the home that people may not just see are shown to the best abilities. I mean, mate, I could literally go on for six hours on this podcast about the amount of things we do, but... It is all the little nuances, all those little one percent that mean you speak about a lot like the one percent don't seem like a lot of the time. But when you when it's a compound effect of ten one percent, well, there's an extra ten percent that you've gained on everybody else. Hundred percent. And a hundred percent. No, no. Ten percent. So I think. That's probably the key part, isn't it? I think sometimes I've certainly recognised it when I've had conversations with agents, whether they're self-employed or not is irrelevant at this point, but to the point I'm making, so many agents are looking for... the silver bullet, that one thing that they can do that's going to all of a sudden make such a humongous difference to the operation of their business. And I think the reality is, don't get me wrong, there are some businesses out there that live in the dark ages still with the way they market themselves and so therefore could make probably ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five percent changes to their operation. But for those that are listening to this, they're already probably in the elite camp. They're just looking for that refinement, that extra edge. And so they've got to go looking for the one percents. I say all the time, right? It's like we've already got a business now that we're very comfortable with moving the way we want it to move. So now we've got to look at the one percents. What tweaks are we going to make? You and I, before this pod recording, have spent two hours reviewing the new nurture campaigns that we're going to be rolling out into the Avenue business for the agents. Now, that two hours was spent looking at the one percents. And to be honest, I know by the end of that two hours, how much I'm irritating you. You don't irritate me. It's just, yeah, it's part of the process. And that's like, I'll refer back to the one percent all the time. We're making these changes now to make a much bigger impact on our agents journey with us that built up over time will continue. relate to success. And I truly believe that otherwise we wouldn't be doing what we're doing. So moving on from the videography then. So we've kind of got a flavour for what people need to be considering for the shoot and how much of an impact that can have. But thinking about it then from the agent's perspective and being able to work with better clients Attract better clients. Work with clients that are prepared and willing to pay a fee that is worthy of the work an agent is prepared to put in. We just talked about the nurtures we've just spent two hours and I jokingly said that I probably irritated you, but that's basically the aim of the game for us now, though, isn't it? Is that we're not just looking at making sweeping changes to things. We're looking at how can we continually improve and iterate and make sure that what we're doing... I see so many... People do things just because they believe it's the thing they should do. They do it for the sake of doing it. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, we spoke about that the other day, didn't we? We even reviewed our marketing deliverables. We viewed them the other day. Are we now becoming... We're just doing them because we're doing them, but we're not like that as a business. And I feel like... Marketing is such a wide topic that you could literally go in any which way you wanna talk about it, but I believe everything is marketing. Every little thing that you do is marketing, literally from the floor plan to the photos, to the videos, to your social media presence, to your letters, to your social media targeting, to your ads, everything is becoming marketing. And I feel like every estate agent now is not really an estate agent, they're a marketer. Oh, yeah. Now, that's a very interesting point. And I'm very much at the same camp as you. I feel like the industry, especially over the last few years in particular, the industry has changed significantly. And I don't see a state agency anymore as a predominantly sales business, which it once was. You know, back in the day when I started my career in two thousand and four, it was all about, you know, who had the sharpest pinstripe suit and the shiniest black shoes and the biggest Rolex. Whereas now, it's marketing first. That was very sales attitude. Whereas now it's like you need to be a marketeer first. Yeah. And it's so difficult for, I suppose, the the agents that are just used to being a state agent and there's nothing wrong with that don't be wrong but I feel like and it's great for us like I love seeing the way like even in my four years of being in the industry like I've seen a huge change and I actually love the fact that everybody's now improving the standards because it keeps everyone sharper and ultimately the only people that are going to win is the homeowners which is how the industry improves So going back a step then, we were talking about the nurtures just now and how we're looking at evolving. Just for those listening in, some people are going, okay, James, Ben, I've heard you talk about nurtures a couple of times. What does that even mean? The simplest way I can describe a nurture is... building a cold lead up to a warm lead to eventually convert them. So that is, say if someone does valuation, for example, they want an instant valuation, realistically, they're not going to want to move right now, but it's adding the additional steps from you as an estate agent in order to warm them up to get them to the point where they want to use you. And that's why nurtures I feel like are so important because you could go and get I could go and get ten valuations online now right now but what is that company actually going to do to follow that up in order for me to want to use them and that's what we're building now interesting so For context then, the idea behind the nurture is to take someone from maybe the early stages, because again, this is a well-documented stat that very, very, very high proportion, or a very well-documented statement, should I say, a very, very high proportion of homeowners don't just wake up one morning and go, let's put the house on the market and let's move. That's just not how it goes. There might be a process of six to nine to twelve months that lead to a point where they then make the decision that now's the time. Yeah. I think the average, I think Rob Brady told it to me once, I think the average Valpo is around roughly about nine months from the point of doing an instant valuation to then wanting to put in the house in the market is roughly around nine months. It's the average online valuation. So that's an interesting point because there are, And it's very notorious of estate agents to be like hunt it, kill it mentality. Like you've shown interest in wanting to sell your house. So surely you just want to put your house on the market immediately. Whereas the reality is, is not true. That's not true. And so the nurtures are designed for those people. Let's say they use an online valuation tool. And that's just one of many nurture sequences, right, that we've got. But let's use that as the example, because a lot of people listening will understand the concept of an online valuation tool. A lot of people that go into that, let's call it the funnel, they are at the very beginning of their house buying and or selling journey. And so at that point, all they're looking to do is gather really simple, basic information. They're not ready to have the house valued. They're not ready to commit to going on the market and physically doing anything at that point. So the nurtures then make sure that our agents, not the new brand, but the agents that operate, their front and center, educating, advising, and going on the journey with that person. So they're filling in the questions. It's almost like the homeowner has a question in their mind, and all of a sudden, something pops up from us, whether it be an ad campaign on Facebook or an email, basically answering that question. Yeah, and I think that's the way you stripped it back to me when we first started building them. Like, what would you want to know as a homeowner? Take yourself out of the avenue, take yourself out of being a marketeer. What would you want to know as a homeowner, what you're going to get from the transaction? And I guess that's the way we've built the nurtures to literally give them so much value that they are never going to want to go anywhere else. And that's happening in the background for our agents without them having to do anything. So for someone listening in, if you are either looking at going self-employed, you're in a self-employed model already, or you're employed but you want to encourage the owners of your business to adapt, evolve, develop more marketing skill, then introducing nurtures could be... So I must say with this, the nurtures aren't an immediate success pill. They are something that work in the background. Twenty four seven. They aren't something that you're going to implement and get an immediate result from. If you put it in place, you get an immediate result. You know, it's rare. But don't expect it. So the idea behind nurtures is, you know, you're doing all your front end marketing. The nurtures just work in the background, warming an audience up so that in three, four, five, six, nine, twelve months time, those clients start to then drip through into the front end of your business organically without you chasing it. Yeah, because you've got to think like if I'm constantly reading emails once a week, twice a week, three times a week, but then I'm actually engaging with that content. I'm then going to want to go and look at what the agents do. Carry what you're doing because they're going to. Ben, have we lost connection? I'll be back. I think we're back now. Oh, we're back in the room. That's the beauty of recording. We can cut that bit out, BR, I believe. Yeah, no, totally. It's warming that whole process up. So within that then, and I think you've kind of segued a little bit, one of my other questions was around how you help the agents in building their personal brand. And so in some of what you've just shared there, that connects to the personal brand build. So what goes into... And more from the point of view, again, I want this to be a value to those listening in that they could go away and go and implement. So what should people be considering in terms of building their personal brand and what goes into it and what support should agents be looking for to help them build it? I think for me, if you first join in a brokerage, I think the first initial launch plan and your content plan for the next nine days is absolutely crucial. But then after that ninety steps, it's how you can build in consistency that you are consistently posting. And that could be an array of different marketing material. Obviously, you're going to want to be promoting properties because fundamentally that is what you're trying to do. but estate agency again is so much more than that now like people buy from people and that's why personal branding is so incredibly important and again like we train our agents like just be yourself like just relate to the homeowner because people buy from people but I think is in planning and it is so incredible people who you are as a state agent. I totally agree. Would you say then that... What's the best way to ask this question? Would you say... that those that are showing up on... Because when you say posting regularly, you're talking about posting on social media, Instagram, Facebook, etc. Would you say that those that are truly themselves and are quite happy sharing more about who they are, although potentially could be controversial, wrong word possibly, could potentially... create division. There'll be some people that like them, some people that dislike them. They'll become a little bit more Marmite. Would you then say that from that point of view that people would be better off creating that. They'd be better off creating that personal brand where people allow people underneath the surface to see who they truly are rather than being a bit vanilla and, hey, this is the local, this is the stat for the house prices in your area right now and be a bit boring, a bit plain. Yeah, let people into your life a bit. Just show them who you are. There's no... unless you're doing something ridiculously stupid which you're not going to because you're professional like just let people under the skin a little bit more like you are just you're a normal person and they know that you're going to do the best for their home but I know we keep repeating it but personal branding is I feel is everything in the state agents you know yes you can do a great job of selling the home yes you can market the home beautifully but until they understand who you are they're never going to connect with you you're just going to become another transaction I think you're right. I think if I think of some of the people that I follow on social media, whether they're estate agents or just people from different spaces, I've actually connected as much with their story and I've connected as much with who they are, probably more so than the reason I'm following them in the first place. Like, I can think of one really good example of that is Alex Hormozy. I knew he was going to say him. Yeah, but he shares his journey. He does talk about where he's come from. He talks about the work that's had to go into getting to where he is. And as much as I value his content because it's insightful and it opens your mind to different ways of doing things, measuring, managing, growing, etc. His story is what's retained me. who he is, where he's come from. I also love the fact that he's just really authentic. Like, this guy's on the path to becoming a billionaire. And by the way, the money's not actually the bit that drives my reason for liking who he is. I just respect his journey. But even down to the fact that he's almost created his own brand through the way he dresses. I mean, he is one of the scruffiest people I see on YouTube. His little nose... And he's no strips and he's over shirts and he's always wearing something branded. Like, but I really like it because of that. I like it because he's real and raw. Like you shouldn't be judging him based on his appearance. You judge him based on his value. Yeah. And that's kind of what like, Again, what we really try and teach our agents to be like, yes, go out and get examples of what you want your marketing to create and what you want your brand to be. But no, you can't replicate being somebody else. You can try all you like, but you're never going to be like that person. Everybody's so different and unique in their delivery. So just back yourself and just do the job that you want to do. Just be you. It's interesting, isn't it? Because I think I can share a personal anecdote here. You're the guy behind the camera, so you can't necessarily give this. But personally, when we do the onboarding process, we always talk to the agents and say, look, basically, you're an estate agent. And what's your and? And so your and should then shine through your marketing. So mine is that I'm a family man. Like, you know, you go on my social media channels and. there's as much about me and my family as there is about me and my business. Uh, Jack obviously is, he is an estate agent and he's into fitness. So you see him running or he played football in a final and got absolutely hammered the other day or, um, I love that. Yeah. But the point is, is that people then connect, um, Emma Nugent is another one that springs to mind. She is, um, an estate agent and a mom to three boys. Yeah. So you're always seeing, but it's so connected. Like I've had so many occasions where valuations I've been on, I've arrived and people have started talking to me about my family. I've never met these people before, but because I show up as a family man, people talk to me as a family man. And I also attract people like me. I've seen it in the living room. So I go into admit, I meet that many homeowners probably just as much as our estate agents do. Cause I'm with them. Yeah. But like even I can connect with the homeowner because I hear our agents talking about their life examples and, oh, I saw you doing this on Instagram. Like how are the kids? Like, oh, I saw you went running the weekend. How was that? Like you've automatically built such a strong relationship with your vendor that you're in it together. Like you, you two are going to work with each other until you get that household. Yeah. And I think that I would also because we're always super positive with the pod, we're always like, you know, you should absolutely do this. And this can work really well. But I feel like we with the personal brand thing, I also feel that we need to talk about the downside. And the one point I want to make is you've got to be careful how you show up as well. Yeah. Because if you come across in any way that you're too submissive, that's probably the one that I would, that springs to my mind. If you come across that you're too submissive and you're happy to serve anyone and everyone and that, you know, there is no filter to the clients that you work with. Um, I would be as bold as to say you will attract the wrong types of clients. You'll attract clients you probably don't want to work with. Would you agree? I lost you there, mate. I lost that. No worries. Signals doing us to down here. It's normally my end, but this time it's you. I was just saying, we've got to talk about the downside to the personal brand. Because if people show up in the wrong way, they show up as being too submissive or they show up as being... They don't really have a filter. They're too vanilla. They end up then potentially attracting the wrong types of clients. And we have seen it, haven't we? We have had partner agents in the brokerage where they're coming to us and saying, I've got a bit of a problem at the moment. I seem to be attracting clients that aren't willing to pay the right kinds of fees. I'm attracting the kind of clients that are so super needy and difficult. Help me get out of that. And quite often it can be connected to the way they're possibly showing up in their outbound marketing. Yeah. And I think, again, that's why it's so important to have a blend of both, have a blend of your professional agency head plus a blend of who you are as well. I feel like it is a real fine line between showing too much and showing not enough. But that's why I guess we try and coach our agents as best we can. But Everybody's different. Everybody perceives marketing very differently, don't they? And I guess that's also the beauty of marketing but also the downside because you can never please everyone. But I think it can act as your natural filter. I can think of scenarios. Obviously, I'm not customer facing anymore, but I can think of many scenarios where when I was customer facing, my marketing, if I really reflect back, my marketing was a really good filter. I had a few clients. I remember Wayne and Beverly. I don't know if you came on the shoot for that lovely one at Orchard View in Criche with the beautiful... You did, didn't you? You did. They were like the perfect client, perfect client. But because I talked about entrepreneurship, I talked about business, I talked about being a family man. All of these things that they were, too, they had built something from the ground up. They were entrepreneur business owners. You know, they weren't corporate C-suite types. They built something from the ground up, from humble beginnings. So they totally related to the Avenue's journey. And it was a massive part of why they wanted to use me as their agent, because they really bought into the backstory. But they were also the best client in the world. They believed in the value of what we offer. They believed in the marketing. They believed in the fact that paying a cheap fee doesn't get a good result. They were the perfect client. But because I talked about that on my social media, I feel it acted like a filter because they followed our social media channels. Whereas I've had other scenarios where I've been out to valuations and they're probably... cut from a different background to me um entirely I am a born entrepreneur like I didn't come through school with fantastic grades I've built something through hard work and using my initiative people that have gone through more the academic system and you know got straight a's and their a levels and then they've you know they've gone through uni and then they've got these they've climbed the corporate ladder and they've got to the top of the corporate tree I find it a lot harder to relate to those people because they've just they've walked a different path yeah yeah you are right it's like we could talk about this for hours and hours it's it really is trying to find I guess it's all about trying to find your niche but we know that I mean I could talk about loads of different brokerages but I'm relating back to the avenue because obviously I work in the avenue but we don't want to be everything for all people like we know we're not that but that's the reason why we market the homes and market the way we do because that is our target audience you make a really good point. And I suppose not to make it at the Avenue. We talk about the Avenue because it's our story and we want to connect the story back to reality so that people can kind of go, okay, I get why you do it that way. But actually when you think about the Avenue as a brokerage attracting partner agents, it's, We practice exactly what we preach. The content we put out attracts a certain type of person but completely repels another. Our outbound message, just for context for those that are listening, just to really qualify all of this. We make it very clear that we deliver professional marketing on absolutely everything. So anyone that wants to become a self-employed estate agent and wants to use their iPhone to take photos of a property and wants cheap access to Rightmove and wants the lowest subscription and the highest percentage of the fee, they automatically disqualify themselves because we won't be a good fit. Because our focus is on higher quality, higher fees, better quality marketing attracts better quality clients. So that just automatically acts as our filter, right? Yeah, it definitely does. And like I said, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just we have a complete different philosophy. But while we're talking about this, I go through Rightmove so much because obviously it's my job. I like to see what's going on in the market, but I just still can't understand why homeowners aren't getting the service that they deserve. Even just really surface level, I'm going surface level, just me scrolling through Rightmove. some of the photos and stuff and not having a floor plan, for example, no description, I just don't like, I don't understand why you're not giving the clients the best possible outcome that you can try and achieve. It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't get it. I think it's less about marketing and more about psychology then though, isn't it? I think a lot of estate agents do wholeheartedly believe that homeowners are entirely driven by fees. And they wholeheartedly believe that they have to be the cheapest in order to be able to compete. They wholeheartedly believe that therefore they can't afford to invest in marketing because they are the cheapest option. So therefore they have to take... You can't afford not to invest in marketing. but mate that's because we know what is right and what works we've built a business on that foundation and it's a business that's growing not declining we've got a business where our fees are rising not going backwards the volume of clients we're attracting is growing not retracting so we know that and that's why the elite agent masterclass podcast exists is to help others all I would encourage people to do that are listening to this that believe that we're wrong It's just rather than saying whether we're right or wrong, just have an open mind. That's all we would ask. If you're listening to this for the first time and you're questioning some of what we're talking about as to whether there's any value or validity to it, just have an open mind to the fact that you can build a business based on quality over quantity. People, if you demonstrate value, will pay more. But from our perspective... The thing that has to be really clear here is that the marketing is what people can see. So the marketing is incredibly important because for the right client types, they will look at marketing and make a judgment call. And they'll make a judgment call on whether the agent is someone who holds high standards and therefore attaches that high standard mentality to a higher result or not. But it's a great point. you can't wholeheartedly rely on beautiful marketing. No. You've got to have something beneath the surface of that. And that's why part of what you go through with agents when we onboard them is the strategy to delivering the marketing. Definitely. Like I said, like, We could give you beautiful marketing, but if you don't have the marketing strategy behind the marketing material that we give you, then it ends up becoming a waste of time, doesn't it? It falls on its face. So I think that's really, really important for people to understand is that people, if you take a moment to put yourself in the shoes of low cost versus high quality, a lot of the buying decisions we make day to day are because of the marketing message that's put in front of us. Do people go out and spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on cars? Yeah. Some people will finance those hundreds of thousands of pounds of cars and rack themselves up to the equivalent of a very large mortgage payment to lease a fancy car because of the marketing that they've been sold. Yeah. So no one can possibly sit on the other end of this podcast and say that beautiful marketing doesn't attract a different client type. They just can't. I think even just stripping it right back, just do what is right for the homeowner. Yeah, you're dealing with their biggest asset. Just throw absolutely everything at achieving them the best result you can. I think I've built my philosophy the past four years, and if I really strip it back, I think the one word that really does stick with me is integrity. And I feel like if you can honestly look back and have integrity about what you've done and think, you know what, I've actually done the best I can possibly do, then nobody can ask anymore. What a parting statement, BR. Love that. We could, because it's such a fundamental part of the business we've built, we could sit and talk about marketing for hours upon hours. And I'm sure we'll have you on for another episode to talk about other elements of the support and the marketing that you provide to the business. There's just one question I want to ask you before we go. Oh, okay. We're flipping the table. Okay. Yeah. If there was one aspect of marketing that you had to choose for estate agents to really dial down on and focus on wholeheartedly, what would it be? Okay. Okay. Do you mean this from the perspective of generating more leads, as in more seller inquiries, or do you mean from the point of view of one piece of marketing that would exponentially improve the chances of selling a property? Let's go with both because I've got a response for both. Interesting. I would say, so one piece of marketing. Mm-hmm. as the listening audience can probably tell, I am playing for time to think about my answer here because I want to be really conscious of it. And I didn't know the question was coming. I would say on the front end, and this will change over time. But if I was starting again, if it was to generate seller leads, I would go all in on social media and I would go. Eighty, eighty five, ninety percent heavy on video marketing. Yeah, I would agree. And if you've got the budget, which I think you have to make account for, it would be a hundred and ten percent of the ads for me to back your marketing up. Yeah, yeah. I think I didn't go to ads primarily because I'm thinking about people starting out and I'm also neutralizing our view. Because obviously outside of the Avenue, there are other brokerages. And I don't know of any other brokerage at the Avenue. We obviously invest quite heavily into the ads on the agent's behalf when they first launch. But I'm giving the advice from the point of view, if they were joining a different brokerage, they may not have the budget for ads. But yeah, if you want to build an audience organically, Then I'd go eighty five, ninety percent in on video. I wouldn't actually worry too much when it comes to the socials about it being overly polished. I agree. Because if it's more raw and it's more real, it's more relatable and then people can connect. Absolutely. So I would focus initially on quantity. of output. Yeah. And I wouldn't go, because a lot of people out there would advise, you know, make sure you put at least one piece of content out a day. Now, when people hear that, they hear, great, I can get away with just posting once a day. Yeah. My advice would be create as much content as you possibly can and aim to post as many times a day as you possibly can get away with. Mm-hmm. and share it into all the local groups, etc. Then if you want to add rocket fuel to that, introduce ads. But the best way to introduce ads is do loads and loads and loads and loads and loads of free content initially, pump loads out, and then after two, three, four weeks, after you've put out ten, twenty, thirty, forty videos, look at the analytics, see which ones have performed the best, and then create ad content off the back of those videos. I agree. So for seller leads there, for selling more listings, I mean, yeah, it's got to be the quality of the marketing that makes a significant difference. But for me... At this precise moment in time, I think it's probably the strategy that goes into it. So yes, I'd advocate for running ads for property listings as well. But I feel like the strategy so that you can... There are fewer buyers in the market right now, but more listings. So therefore, I would be looking at trying to create a competitive environment. And this is a different episode, but all about launch day marketing. Some would understand it as open house. But for me, I would look at it. We call it launch day. We want to change the language so that people don't attach the negative connotations to open house. And I would lean into that form of marketing, but attached to the beautiful marketing and the ads. Yeah, they're the two places that I would have gone in fairness as well. So we're on the same page. Makes sense. It makes sense. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for joining us on the pod. We'll have to get back on to talk more, I think more about social media on another occasion. But for now, that is the Elite Agent Masterclass. Mr. Ben Robinson, thank you for your time. Thanks, mate. I'll see you soon.