The Difference Between Being an Estate Agent vs. Building an Estate Agency Business

Welcome back to The Elite Agent Masterclass — your go-to podcast for agents who want more than a job… they want a business.

In this episode, Jack Durkin sits down with James Humphries-Stone to dive deep into what really separates a self-employed estate agent from a business owner. The conversation covers powerful truths about building infrastructure, creating freedom, and shifting from being the centre of the business to building something that operates without you.

They explore:

• Why so many agents moving from other self-employed models are seeing immediate success at The Avenue
• What James has been doing in his new coaching-led role to help partners scale their businesses fast
• The incredible story of a partner who spent just £18 on Meta Ads and generated a 7-figure valuation (plus a sale!)
• Why tracking your numbers with scorecards is mission critical — and how it can directly improve conversion and profit
• The importance of direct mail automation and how to leverage PropAlt for highly targeted campaigns
• Why second-hand listings could be your biggest (and most profitable) opportunity right now
• What most agents get wrong about the market — and why it’s not about declining demand, but poor strategy
• How you can build a business that allows you to take time off, while everything keeps running smoothly

If you’re serious about becoming the go-to agent in your patch, charging the fee you deserve, and building something that gives you choice and freedom — this one’s for you.

👥 Want to speak to one of our partner agents? Drop us a message. 📩 Want the valuation forecasting template we mention? Just comment or DM “template” and we’ll send it over. 📈 Want support building your pipeline or launching your agency? Let’s have a chat.

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Transcript

Welcome to the Elite Agent Masterclass. We're back with another episode of the pod. I'm joined with James Humphrey-Stone. My name's Jack Durkin. I am back from holiday. It isn't my eighth holiday of the year, as Holly and James mentioned last time around. But I wanted to get started with A few questions for James around how he's... So for anyone that's listening, James's role has changed within the business recently. He's very much focused around supporting the partners. We've actually had a few partners that have joined us recently that actually came from other self-employed models, and we've seen some real success from those agents. So I was really keen to hear James's thoughts as to why he thinks that's been the case and what sort of support is going in, what guidance is going in to help them get there. James, how have you found the last three months since the change in role and obviously working a lot closer with some of the agents that you've been coaching and working with? Yeah, cool. So first off, I know we took the mickey on the last pod around you having a lot of holidays. But you know what? Fair play, because it's well deserved. When you are here, you are flat out and work so hard for the business and for the partners and for your clients. So, yeah, we said it tongue in cheek, but Jack is well deserving of a good holiday. I think the great thing about this more recently is that I have had a fair bit of time away, especially this month, I won't lie. However, the business has still run really, really well. We've managed to build infrastructure into our local business. That means it can still take over without me being there. And yeah, I'm really proud of the team that we've got that have allowed me to do that. So yeah, maybe it's not the last holiday this year. And you know what? There will be people that listen to this pod for a very specific reason, and that is that they're either exploring self-employed estate agency or are in that world right now, but looking for more clarity on how they can create a business and be less of an estate agent. And everyone gets caught in that trap, don't they, when they go self-employed? You know, I'm a really good estate agent, so I'm just going to take what I know and do it again. But the trap with that is that you become the center of everything, don't you? So what you've created is a business because the business can operate without you needing to be at the center of it all the time. And I think that's really important to share. So the tongue in cheek comment around your holidays is actually a really valuable lesson for anyone listening. If you want to build a business rather than just simply being an estate agent at the center that's always having to pull all the strings, then that's how you do it. Yeah, I think it's not always easy as well, where, especially for someone like me, and I'm sure there's many other people out there that like to have control over everything that's happening. So being comfortable letting go is a difficult, but a really valuable skill and lesson to learn, I think, for anyone that is running or thinking of running a business. Which takes time. Like both of us, that's a blessing and a curse for us, isn't it? We like to be able to understand and to some extent control everything that's going on. But I think one of the big things, which comes back to your question you asked, one of the big things that's enabled us to move a lot faster now in terms of the growth of the business we run is the fact that we have been much more at ease with letting go of things and having trust that actually there are people around us that are bloody good at what they do and they're delivering. And so in answer to your question, yes, my role changed as of January. You know, twenty twenty five represents my twenty first year in a state agency. And I had a period in time in the previous business that we were a part of where I was a regional director. But that was probably for two and a half, three years. And at that point in time, I missed being customer facing. It's almost like your comfy pair of slippers, your safe space. Right. And it helps that I'm pretty good at it. But actually, it's not my true gift. And so making the decision to come out of my local business fully, I am not customer facing anymore. Making that decision as of January. I'll be honest with you. I was a bit nervous. I was a bit scared. I was like, I could become exposed. And that's, that's, that's hard to admit, but I don't mind being vulnerable because I've got to share these things with people to help them understand some of the changes they may want to make. But actually, as I reflect back on it now, we're the beginning of April. And I look back at the last three months, I'm like, That was probably one of the best business decisions I've ever made. And it comes from a number of places. I love a state agency, but I actually love building businesses more and being able to help our existing partners add value tools and resources and marketing and what have you to their businesses to elevate them, to be able to onboard five new agents, all of which who are absolutely flying. And I've had, I would like to say, quite a strong influence over that. That is so fulfilling for me. So fulfilling. think you can you can you can see as well at the very start when you don't initially see those results you put a lot of work in once you start and we've had conversations where our agents have reached out off the back of some of the work that they've done with you on the strategy calls and instantly they've got a result and I can just see how much that lights you up to see other people win is yeah I can see super important to you Huge. And I don't want to sit on this call sound, you know, on this pod rather sounding like, you know, I'm a version of Mother Teresa or Mahatma Gandhi. Like there is a selfless part to that. I love seeing other people win, but there's also a very self-serving part of that. And that is that it, it, it, It's gratifying for me. It makes me, I guess it's a reassurance piece, right? It's that thing of, actually, I really do know my stuff and these guys are implementing it. And it's all well and good me being able to do it. It's all well and good me being able to build a marketing campaign and deliver it myself. But the real test of a leader and the real test of a coach, the real test of someone that is going to serve people around them is, can you recreate that for others to follow and they win? And that for me is the most fulfilling thing. I think that's really why I wanted to unpick it today because, as I said at the start of the pod, we've had quite a few agents of those five that have been self-employed and been with other models and they haven't had the success that they felt they could achieve and felt as though they maybe didn't get the right support from the brokerage that they were working with previously to help them grow and scale their business to the place that they want to get to. I was really keen to unpick some of the things that you felt have worked really well um with the agents you've worked with um some of the strategies that you've discussed obviously we don't want to give too much away but it'd be good to give some of the people listening um some of the secret sauce to the success that our agents have seen and generated So yeah, so over the last few months, having worked with not just those five agents, but all of the agents across our business who are all at different stages within their business, what have you seen that's worked well? And is there any results that you can share off the back of those agents' implementations and actions that have seen them succeed? Yeah, so many. And I'm not going to necessarily name individuals because part of what we've shared there is that they have come from other brokerages. And so therefore, I don't want to put them in a position or throw shade at other brokerages, to be quite honest, because there are plenty of fantastic brokerages out there. It doesn't mean that the brokerage was bad. It just means that it wasn't a good fit for the individual. And so I won't name names, but we've got One of the most recent agents, I suppose, over the last five or six months that's joined us, they knew the job. They've been a long time in the industry, seasoned agents. They actually did spoil intents and purposes really well in their previous brokerage. But the big thing for them was they felt like, and we had this conversation when we did the onboarding week. And I use the analogy of, you know, it's like trying to get a fish to climb a tree. A lot of what was going on within that brokerage for him was like trying, he put him in the water and the guy can swim like the best of people, but they're trying to force him to climb a tree. And so he was in the wrong environment. But he was starting to doubt himself. And so one of the biggest dials I had to turn with him wasn't necessarily adding any skill or estate agency ability, or it was more helping him build that self-belief again and be really at ease with who he is. That was a really big thing. And a real nice moment that me and him shared was on the Wednesdays, the middle of that week, he said to me, like, I just want to say thank you. You've really made me feel at ease with being my true authentic self. And I haven't felt like I've been able to do that before now. So that was nice. And so that sounds... It doesn't sound that technically difficult, right? But sometimes people just need to know that people believe in them and they need to develop that belief in themselves because it can get... The environment you're in can either suck the... motivation and the belief out of you or it can breathe life into it. And so that was a big moment for him. But what we also did is he launched really, really well, attracted some fantastic listings straight out the gate. We built a Meta ad campaign for one of those listings. After eighteen pounds spent, he gets a lead for a viewing on a one point two five million pound property and which also then led to a valuation on a one point two million pound property. So I think that's a pretty good tactical implementation. Good return on investment as well, if you can list and sell that property, because I know his fees are very, very strong. So, yeah, from eighteen pound, it's a hell of a return on investment. Based on his average fee already, that will represent a well over a thousand X return on investment. Yeah, a great, great result. And also it's generated him a potential sale for that listing that he's got on the market. Yeah, absolutely. So that I would say is one of the wins for one of the more recent partners. I think one of the big changes, you asked me what changes have we made. I think one of the big things that we have invested time and energy in, I certainly have, back in the last year, was really getting into the detail around meta paid for marketing. I'm very proud to say that as a brand, the avenue up until the end of last year predominantly had built based on organic marketing. Direct mail obviously was a part of that as well. And that was very, very well delivered and very lucrative. But adding that little bit of rocket fuel in by introducing meta ads and all the agents that are running them are seeing really good returns, really, really good returns. So I'd say that's one of the biggest changes we've made. I think you've spent a lot of time looking at the meta ads, haven't you, and helping the agents implement into the business using different strategies and different ideas. And there's already been, well, within the last few months, some really good successes off the back of those meta ads. I think the other great thing as well is, as we've seen for a lot of our agents, it's also getting them recognised and getting their faces out there. So it's not only about the results, it's also about the exposure that it gives them. A hundred percent. So I will make reference to this couple because they didn't come from a brokerage before. But Bailey and Alice down in Essex, they've had their names mentioned a few times. And do you know what? Well-deserved, too, because they joined us. They launched. They did their foundations on board in week the end of November. They launched their business in December. We set up meta campaigns to get that off the ground. and I looked at the analytics beginning of january so four months worth analytics and for very little ad spend very very little ad spend given that the december period is an expensive time to run ads because of the time of year um very little ad spend put them in front of over a quarter of a million local eyeballs um and it's no surprise that they hit january and have just gone and skyrocketed the number of mas they're seeing the instructions the sales the the buyer volume it's blown my mind as to how fast they've come out of the traps. Yeah, I was looking at their stats and a little bit over their business earlier and already in such a short space of time. When did they join us? It's been six months, has it? No, no, no, no. They launched in December. So it'll be four months this month. Yeah, four months. And already they've got a six-figure pipeline built across their SSTC and available stock, which will no doubt see them hit six figures comfortably this year from a completely cold start. Absolutely flown. Absolutely flown. So, yeah, I think one of the other big acknowledgements, I suppose, with my changing role is obviously we run the scorecard through the business. And I would encourage anyone out there that's listening in, whether you're a business owner or you operate as a self-employed estate agent. Build a scorecard into your business. Start to measure what you're doing so that you can understand what is working and what isn't. And I believe that me and Holly may well have touched on this on the previous pod, so I'm not going to labour it too much. But I suppose I'm repeating the point because one of the most fundamental changes that we made about a year ago was implementing that scorecard. And I genuinely believe that it's made such a significant difference to the way we operate the avenue and therefore how we serve our partner agents. Yeah, I think it's allowing us to look at the data, hasn't it? And the data kind of leads our decisions then. I think the same for any self-employed agent out there. If they're not tracking their numbers, if they're not tracking their results, if they're not tracking where their leads and opportunities are coming from, they can't look at how they can improve on the strategies that they've got in place and see better results. How can you know what's working if you're not tracking and measuring? How can you know what is or isn't working? And so I think that's where... I get slammed a little bit for it on LinkedIn. And as you and I both believe it to be true, but I do genuinely believe that we work in an industry that can provide you with a balance between your work and your life. I'm not saying it's a fifty fifty split and all that stuff, but I'm saying you can have control over the balance. And that's because our agents and we measure our businesses. So we understand what we need to change. And so rather than becoming busy fools, just chasing after lots of new, we know where to look and it's just easier. Yeah. And so the work life balance thing can happen, but you need to be able to track and measure your business first. You can't just kind of go, I'm going to throw loads of mud against the wall, hope some of it sticks on. By the way, I'm going to go on thirty two holidays like Jack Durkin does every year. Coming back to that, I mean, one of those holidays was actually a planned Avenue away trip for some of us, which was a great weekend for us and the agents that joined us. And it was a great celebration of the success that the agents in the business had. And we had some fun along the way. And we'll be another trip later this year as well. But I'm a big believer in. you have to I suppose reward yourself and enjoy the efforts and the work that you've put in because otherwise it can become quite draining and quite laborious so yeah I'm a big believer in really making the most of um yeah enjoying the rewards of the business that you put into growing totally totally it doesn't make any sense does it unless you're gonna you're gonna reap the reward exactly so it'll be interesting to see who'll be on the next trip and also where we're going to be going at the end of this year possibly as well um coming on to those so we've talked about around the meta ads and that's been a big big change and a big um implementation that the agents have started seeing success from within their businesses what else could we look at a number of things obviously digital um digital ads uh digital social media we've started running a lot of um you mentioned direct mail earlier and we've got automations now What success have we seen from those with the automation around the direct mail campaigns? Yeah, so the direct mail campaigns, we changed platforms. So we were using one provider. We switched to Propult. So little hat tip to Kieran on that. He was on the pod a little while back. And the main reason we made the switch was the amount of data that is available and also how how much of the process can still remain personal, but can be automated. I'm a big fan of introducing AI and automation and delegation wherever we can, provided it doesn't lose the personal touch. And so we set up what we called the set and forget campaigns. And so we've had a number of agents that... I think one of the big roles that I've recognized I've got to play is helping people maintain a level head and keep balance. So what I mean by that is set and forgets are a good example. Some people, which is very typical of us as estate agents, is wanting fast results and quick wins. Some people set the set and forgets up and within a couple of weeks, well, they're not working. And that then triggered a thought to me is, okay, cool. I need to get ahead of this curve and explain to people, the set and forgets just need to be in play for at least six weeks before you're likely to see a result. The same way that we coach the partners when we onboard them around, you're going to be posting on social media organically for the next six to eight weeks you're gonna feel like you're shouting into an empty room because you're unlikely to get a great deal of response treat set and forgets the same way just let them happen and trust that the process will bear fruit and so those that have done that are then seeing the fruits of their labor they are then getting clients picking up the phone and saying, okay, I've got your letter. You're really timely because I've reduced my price on my property four weeks ago and nothing's changed. I'm getting really frustrated and the content of your letter really spoke to me. So can we have a chat about what we could do differently? That's a win. And I suppose one of the agents that you've been working with on the set and forget campaigns, like you said, there has to be a period of time where you let them run and you see the results from them. And one agent in particular has looked at the results. And then there's been small tweaks that you've made, i.e. taking a QR code out and swapping it with something else. And that's seen a better return on their investment. But I think you touched on something really important. You have to give it some time before you are able to analyze the data. You can't just expect those results to happen straight away. One resort I'm keen to share, and I'm sure it's probably been mentioned to you as well, James, but one of the agents recently had a conversation with them and off the back of Propulse data and information that he was able to gain access to, he actually found a property that was owned by a company. managed to get the details of the owners of that company, had a conversation about listing the house and has taken that property on more recently. He's at one point two five million. So, again, big props to Kieran. That opportunity wouldn't have came off the back of without having access to the data and information that they're able to share with us. I was about to say, would that agent happen to be down in Essex? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. A one point three five million pound farm is exactly what it is, which. Yeah. And, you know, credit to him. So this comes back to the coaching role that I've been playing me and the it's fine we can talk about him openly because again there's no attachment to this story connected to anybody else but him um but Lee Holman so Lee long long in the tooth as an estate agent um he won't mind me saying he's obviously been on the pod people will have listened to him um he's very he's got very strong opinions on things but he's also got a real growth mindset and so I was on a call with him about three or four weeks ago talking through a marketing strategy and he stopped me about ten minutes in he's like mate I've feel like I'd be better served coming up to Derbyshire for a day. And we just get into this together and just absolutely crush it out. And I was like, well, that's fine, but that's a four hour trip to me. And then a four hour home, you're going to stop overnight or I'll just do a round trip. So he gets up at five AM, comes up to me, gets to me for nine AM. we we nailed it like he was so on point with getting it done um off the back of the exercise that we did off the back of the marketing campaign that we built went home got home at nearly ten o'clock that night fair play long slog next day rings me at quarter past ten in the morning he was like mate that thing we went through yesterday it bloody works you know I'm like okay what are you saying and and then exactly what you just shared there is what happened Yeah, bear in mind as well, after the back of that day, I saw emails coming through, messages off him constantly. He'd literally taken everything you'd shared with him and actioned it straight away. And that's, I think, one of the important things that there's a lot we can share and a lot that you can go and find out yourself. There's plenty of information available. um online but it's about the implementation as well and that's one thing that lee's very very good at is making sure that he implements it um you mentioned obviously he's really he's got a real growth mindset and really took on board the coaching but I think that's also testament to the relationship that we've built with our agents and the level of trust that they have with us I suppose partly because we've been in the field, we've done this ourselves, we've found out what's worked, we've tested things ourselves and we're not just telling people things that we haven't already tried and tested. We know these things work. So I suppose it's also the level of trust that they have to want to come up and try because he can see the value that he's going to get from spending a day with you and how that's going to have a massive impact on his business. Yeah, for sure. And I think that you've made a point there that made me think about one of the fears I had in changing my role. I think one of the big things that a lot of people have been attracted to with The Avenue is that both you and I, we walk the walk. You know, we don't just talk a good game on LinkedIn or Facebook or on the podcast. We actually actively deliver the things that we're talking about. And so one of my biggest fears in changing my roles was that. I'm no longer walking that walk. I've walked it and I've proved myself, but are people still going to trust in me, believe in me and listen to me based on the fact that I'm now no longer delivering it out in the field? But this comes back to my point earlier, doesn't it, of a good leader, a good coach. Because now I'm able to support the partners and they're the ones delivering it. I don't have to be the one that's showing it because they are implementing the support and advice I'm offering them and they're now winning. Good example, Eliza up in Cheshire messaged me earlier in the week. She was like, oh, just a heads up. I've had a message through LinkedIn and Instagram from someone that's at another brokerage wanting to pick my brains about the avenue. So just wanted to give you a heads up. Are you free later this week? If the conversation goes well for that person to speak to you, I'm like, yeah, brilliant. Because she's implementing what we're coaching. And so she's now got the light shining on her and these agents going, well, I want a piece of that action and I haven't currently got it. Yeah, I think that's a big thing, isn't it? With the success we're seeing from the other agents, it is naturally attracting more people that want the same success that they're currently generating and reaping the rewards of as well. Yeah, a hundred percent. Cool. So with that, obviously we've got the PropAlt campaigns that are running, the meta ads. What other things have you been working on with the agents? And I suppose it's really good to say that we've got agents across the whole of the UK now. So there's obviously very different areas that they're covering. We've got agents across the Midlands, we've got agents in Cheshire, Oxford, Essex. So I think it's really, it allows you to see what's happening in different marketplaces. So maybe a different question. What do you see, obviously stamp duty deadlines out of the way now. What can you see happening in the next few months or throughout this year across the market? Yeah, this is an interesting topic. Yeah, no, no, no, a really, really good one. And I think it's an interesting period that we're venturing into. And I think it does that age-old thing, isn't it? It's very divisive. It creates two very clear camps of people. I see a lot on LinkedIn at the minute of people kind of, or pre-stamp duty deadline, saying, oh, you know, The market is likely to go flat in Q two and Q three because of all of this. What's it now? Artificially forcing transactions for Q one is notoriously not one of the busier months for exchanges, is it? Whereas I want to be led by the data of my own business. So I'm not going to be led by the narrative of other people because. I do genuinely believe that, and it comes back to the mindset piece I said about earlier, if you choose to convince yourself of a thing, then that thing will become true for you because all you're doing is conditioning your subconscious to believe the story you tell it. So if you tell yourself that Q two and Q three are going to be quiet because of this artificial deadline that caused an influx of transactions, then guess what? your behavior will start to portray that. Whereas I look at our data as a business and I looked at March in isolation and forget exchanges because we measure everything from the amount of MAs we're going to right the way through to the number of reviews that we're receiving at the back end. And so the measurables I was looking at to give us an indicator as to what Q two and Q three are going to look at is have our MA levels, market appraisal levels dropped. have our forward book valuations dropped? have our instruction levels dropped, have our sales, the number of offers we receive, the number of new buyers registering and the number of sales agreed in March. So this is in a period of time where anyone that was agreeing a deal after the first week of March, they expect to get through. No chance. They're not getting through by the deadline. So they were the measurables. There's like six things that I was looking at that are then leading indicators for me as to what Q two and Q three are going to look like. And I looked at those numbers and I went, Hmm, We've done more business across all of those metrics in March than January and February, and in some cases combined. The number of MAs we saw in March were twice as high as February and January. We've certainly seen that on a localised level. I was keen to see whether that is across the business and having looked at the numbers on the scorecard, it's clear that not just in isolated areas, but across the whole business, across every area within the business, those numbers are much higher than they were at the start of the year. A hundred percent. A hundred percent I support that, not a hundred percent they're up. But on every metric, there wasn't one of those metrics I've just shared from the number of MAs we see, forward booked, instructions, offers, new buyers registering, sales, all of them were up. in march against previous months so to me that's a really really strong indicator and I think the other thing that has to be brought into consideration there is all and I'll say this out loud for those at the back of the room all problems start with leadership All problems start with leadership. And the reason I share that is at no point in time did me, you or anyone else in our core team bang the drum with the agents around, oh, you know, make hay while the sun shines, this stamp duty deadline. It's going to be quiet Q two, Q three and Q four. So we need to make the most of this. We just went, let's just keep going. Like, let's just keep filling the hopper. Keep putting the action out there. Don't let all of your attention go straight to the burning fire that is this deadline. Of course, it's going to need more of your time, but don't let it all go there. Let's make sure we're still filling the hopper at the top end. We're generating leads still. The outputs are still there. And guess what? It's remained steady. And so if you are in a headspace right now where you believe Q two and Q three are going to be quiet for you, and you're in a position where you have people that are leading you, then you probably need to question the messaging that you're receiving from that leadership. And are you a fish trying to climb a tree? Yeah, I think it's, it is having that positive mindset, isn't it? Because there is a lot of negative talk in the media, you know, lots of people. I was at the gym this morning and I had two people come up to me and say, the market's not looking very good, is it? And I'm like, oh, we're actually... Based on what? I mean, looking at the market, and I looked at the stats locally the other day, that there were a number of properties that have been reduced, but there are still a number of properties that are being sold. I believe it's just the market's very price sensitive. So... As long as the agents are listing well, marketing well, have the right strategy in place as well that are going to generate the right results for the client and they're proactive. It's just not, we're not in an easy market. And I believe that's why self-employed agents are really going to shine through in a market like this because they're willing to go that extra mile. They're willing to put the hard work in because ultimately they're not going to get paid unless they get the results that they're looking for. Absolutely. I think the big thing in that as well, mate, is that, you know, they they're being given the right tools and the right resources in order to help their clients win. You know, they aren't operating in a cookie cutter environment where it's like, OK, we list house, we shoot photo on potato, we put on right move and we hope and pray that someone will pick up the phone and want to view it. That's not what self-employed estate agency is. It's a bespoke approach to every listing. It's a very tailored way in which you deliver it to social media pre-launch. It's a very specific way in which you build the advert to talk to the ideal buyer for that property. And again, if anybody self-employed is listening into this and going, well, I'm not being given that support. You're in the wrong place. I'm being really brash with this. And I'm not saying that the avenue is the only place that will deliver that. There are plenty of brokerages that will do what I'm saying. But Get your head up a little bit and say, it isn't that your market's hard. It isn't that clients in your area just aren't embracing the model. I call BS on that. I think the other thing you've touched on there, Jack, I'm on my soapbox now, so forgive me. But the other thing you've touched on there is there's a lot of price reductions. I still genuinely believe that has absolutely nothing to do with a declining market. I genuinely believe that that's not the case. I wholeheartedly believe it's estate agents not having the skill to list properties at the right price in the first place. So therefore they're doing two things. They're overvaluing to win the listing, overvaluing. They're not putting on market value and then having to drop it. And they're undercutting on fee because they've got no skill to win the business on the right terms. That's it. We went out to two yesterday for exactly that reason. We went out to them a little while back. This was a revisit because they've been on the market with both have been on the market with two separate agents. and both have gone on at inflated prices much higher than what we suggested and they also having been charged much lower fees they've invited us out because they haven't got the right results and they're questioning why they haven't got the right results but it's for two reasons they've gone firstly with an agent that has inflated the price and secondly if they do want that inflated price they're going to have to invest much heavily much more heavily into the fee if the agent is going to get that result because they're going to have to throw so much more money at the marketing and I suppose it's I suppose it's the sellers reconditioning that estate agents being comfortable actually valuing it at the correct price and delivering on value as opposed to competing on fee and competing on price um A hundred percent. I think, sorry, the other thing I was going to say to that as well is that, you know, those secondhand, this is why we have built the set and forget campaigns because they are very much tailored towards homes that are on the market. A lot of our campaigns recently have been tailored towards homes that are on the market. And so the reason for that is exactly what you've just said. I genuinely believe that a secondhand listing... Some people look at secondhand listings and go, oh, they're a waste of time. The owner has overinflated expectations. The owner is on with purple bricks, so therefore wants a cheap fee or whatever. And so... I'm like, great. You hang on to those limiting beliefs because my belief is secondhand listings. If you position yourself in the right way, you're going to get the price right and you're going to get the fee right. Quick story, quick anecdote for you. Exact point in case, Emma Wood, who operates in Derbyshire, took on a listing about ten days ago, maybe two weeks ago, from a client who'd been on the market for about seven months with a different estate agent, a traditional agent, not a self-employed agent. And in that time, that property had had two viewings. To be fair, I looked at the comparables for her because it's quite unique. It's a barn conversion. And I looked because she asked, she's like, what do you think? Because I don't think the price is right. In fact, I think the price is quite a long way off. But can I just have a second opinion? So I took a look and I'm like, that is about a hundred grand the wrong way like the fact that they got two viewings is impressive because it's about a hundred grand the wrong way and it's a it's a seven hundred odd grand barn conversions we're not talking like a two million pound a hundred grand being the wrong way is a bit more palatable this is a long way out so anyway emma goes out and sees the client she gave the advice and said look I believe it's realistically six seven five to seven two five I think it was on about eight hundred eight fifty something like that And originally agreed that they were going to put it on a seven to five. So the client agreed straight out the gate to reduce the price by about seventy five grand. Emma then gets a call and sorry, fee client disclosed the other agent was charging half a percent plus VAT. Emma has secured one point five percent plus VAT with six hundred pounds plus VAT paid up front for marketing contribution. The client, two days after agreeing terms to say they wanted to go ahead with Emma, rings Emma and goes, Emma, I just want to discuss the price with you. And Emma's first thought is, no, they're going to want to put it back on at the original price. They're going to want to put it up or whatever. I've been reflecting on what you said. Can we go on offers over six, seven, five? going to say they brought the price down they brought honestly honestly if you if anyone listening to this does not believe me go on the avenue website um I can't remember where the property is it's dee seven just put dee seven into our website you'll find the property uh it's uh barn conversion offers over six seven five here's the best bit off yesterday market two weeks six viewings booked an offer already in People that are secondhand, it's generally speaking, there are some clients out there that have got overambitious expectations. There are. I'm not going to sit here and try and convince everyone that there aren't. But there are plenty that are sensible that have been misled. See, for me, it's... I do believe that there are a number of sellers out there that have ambitious expectations and that will try and influence the price somewhat because they will tell the agents what they want. I think the issue I believe we have is that the estate agents haven't got enough confidence to go back to the client and say, that isn't the correct price. This is where it sits in the market. And this is why I believe it sits at this price in the market. And they're too fearful of upsetting their clients rather than giving them honest, realistic advice And walking away from that appointment, even if they don't win it, knowing that they've given us advice, rather than thinking it's another instruction on the board, it's another tick that we needed to get more market share and more boards in the area. But ultimately, yes, the clients might influence that slightly, but it's the agent's responsibility to make sure that they bring properties on at the correct price, in my opinion. Totally agree. Yeah. Slight segue into that. What can we expect from after the pods are back up and running now? We're keen to make sure these are gonna start becoming much more consistent again. We had a lot happening as you mentioned on the last pod over the last few months. So for those listening, what can they expect on those upcoming pods and what can they expect from team Exciting stuff. Yeah, I'm so glad the pod's back. It brings up topics that you and I, you know, we had a little bit of a skeleton of what we were going to discuss on this pod, but there's so much stuff that we've talked about in the last four minutes where it's like, that wasn't in the plan. But it's so valuable and it's stuff we're super passionate about. And I'm really excited that part of the pod plan moving forward is we're going to get the guests back on. We're going to be delivering lots and lots of value. We, in that period of time where we've had our little sabbatical, we've been working on lots of stuff in the background that does then directly impact on content we can share in the pod. So, more and better lead generation strategies for agents out there, more better ways in which to engage with clients to get them to understand that you're the authority. So loads of value stacked. I would say keep a close eye on the Elite Agent Masterclass YouTube channel because we're going to be loading that with so much value over the next couple of months as well. And we're going to be releasing some events later in the year too. So watch this space. And for anyone that is listening and following, please drop a comment across whatever platform you're looking at. If you'd like to see more or you've got any ideas on what you'd like to see more of, or if there's any guests that you believe should be featured on the pod, make sure to tag them and we'll reach out to them and see if we can set that up for you guys. So, yeah, stay tuned for the upcoming pods. We'll be back on again next week. Thank you for listening to this one. I hope you've enjoyed it and we'll see you again very soon.