Special Edition | Live from the Green: Simon Gates on How to Build Estate Agency Success

In this special episode of the Elite Agent Masterclass, we take a unique approach and hit the golf course with Simon Gates for an unforgettable session. Join James and Jack as they tee off with Simon for a round filled with both great conversation and friendly competition. While the game is in full swing, the discussion dives deep into the world of estate agency, self-employment, and how agents can excel in today’s fast-evolving market.

Simon Gates, a seasoned expert in estate agency and self-employment, offers valuable insights into several key areas that every agent should know. Whether you're just starting out or looking to take your career to the next level, Simon provides actionable advice on:

• The rise of self-employed estate agents, why this model is gaining popularity, and how to transition successfully into self-employment.
• Leveraging buyers in estate agency to win more listings and build a sustainable business.
• Going beyond typical platforms like Rightmove and implementing innovative strategies to market properties for maximum exposure.
• Building strong client relationships through targeted networking and direct mail, providing a long-term pipeline of clients and referrals.
• Simon’s advice on how agents can confidently stand out and charge higher fees by focusing on adding real value and delivering exceptional service.

Packed with actionable takeaways, from strategies on winning listings to mastering buyer engagement. Plus, if you're interested in transitioning to self-employment, Simon breaks down the mindset and practical steps you need to succeed in this growing market.

It’s not all business—there are plenty of lighthearted moments on the golf course, with Simon' win! The trio shares laughs, making this episode as entertaining as it is educational.

Don't miss out on this unique blend of estate agency expertise and fun on the fairway. Whether you’re tuning in for the golf or the insights, this episode has something for everyone!

0:00 - Welcome & Intro
2:20 - Why Self-Employment is Growing in Estate Agency
5:45 - Marketing Beyond Rightmove & Leveraging Buyers
10:30 - Serving Buyers & Sellers Differently
15:50 - Direct Mail & Creative Strategies to Win Listings
20:10 - Simon’s Take on Fees & Adding Value
28:40 - Golf Round & Final Thoughts

Watch the full episode for more

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Transcript

Welcome to another episode of the Elite Agent Masterclass. Today is a special episode. We're on set with Mr. Simon Gates. And when I say on set, this man beside me loves playing golf. Now, if you are listening to this on Spotify or Apple, I would suggest you hit the link in the description below to watch us on YouTube. We'll be watching the round. Jack is terrible at golf, so it could be very interesting to see his reaction. Simon seemingly is very good, and I'll be somewhere in the middle. So welcome to the pod, Simon Gates.

Thank you very much for having me.

We're live, scores on the doors. Mr. Gates is up two against James and Jack, but don't worry, we're coming back very soon.

Simon, I wanted to ask you, if you were looking to start yourself employed or even the status of journey, whatever that might look like, where would you start? What would you do?

That's a million-dollar question. I think that, you know, looking at the likes of yourselves at The Avenue and what you guys have done clearly self-employed, if you're gonna go do it yourself, I think the way to go. I think it's like a 500% increase in the self-employed market over the last five years. I think that I had Paul Jamieson from 20M, my podcast recently, and I think around at least 2% of the market is all listings of the market self-employed. It's clearly, clearly growing.

And I look back at myself, and I'm a big fan of independent stages, so don't get me wrong. Self-employed can be right for some people; it's not right for others. And I'm slightly digressing, but I could not see myself going back to being a branch manager. If I was in an agency again tomorrow, you would not see me as a branch manager, no chance. I actually think I may be unemployable. So the self-employed and brokerage route, I think is what I would consider. Because I was saying to you guys before, that Simon Gates Estate Agents above the door would scare the hell out of me, I think, and the upfront expense, Rightmove bill, et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah, I think, you know, let's say Rightmove is 1,500, two grand a month, whatever it is, even if you're not selling houses, you've got to pay that bill. And I guess like from maybe a more of a fixed mindset, but at least at the start, if you're not selling houses, you can go, well, there are various self-employed models out there, which will have different levels of cost per month, but call it a couple hundred quid. There's an arbitrary number. It gives you scope to then invest. Well, first of all, pay your mortgage if you've got a mortgage, feed your kids, whatever, but then reinvest that in other marketing outside of Rightmove, because I think that too many agents get fixated on Rightmove, and oh, it's not providing me enough valuation leads. Rightmove is not there to give you valuation leads.

So if you spend all your money on Rightmove and think it will bring you leads, you're fooling yourself. You want to have some of that money to invest in direct mail, social media, networking, et cetera, which I know you guys do very well.

Yeah. Rightmove has been the biggest portal out there for anyone looking at property. Agents have got to see that as a marketing tool as well, a vehicle to get themselves in front of people, if you're marketing your property in the right way.

So here's a stat for you on the marketing there. According to Rightmove, 69% of buyer inquiries have a property to sell, and 52% of them are not yet on the market when they inquire. So when you're looking for valuation leads, you're not going to get someone phoning you up from Rightmove saying, hello, I'd like my house valuing. But if you market your property in the correct way, you're going to attract buyers, they're going to be impressed with your marketing. They will have a house to sell two-thirds of the time, a lot of the time in your area, and half the time they're not even on the market.

So your sellers of tomorrow, the classic saying are the buyers of today. You work them the right way, you're then going to sell this. It's making the most of those opportunities, isn't it?

Absolutely.

Great strike.

Oh, it sounded lovely.

Opening the gates goes three up through four holes against The Avenue at the minute, this feels like a spanking. But let's see how the remaining 14 holes go.

So Simon, you referred to a stat about Rightmove. 70 odd percent of people have got a house to sell that are looking for a property, and then 50% of those...

And not yet on the market.

And not yet on the market. So it would therefore make logical sense to worry more about what you do in terms of serving those clients rather than the source of lead in the first place.

So what would your advice to someone out there, whether it be let's forget the genre of estate agency for the moment, but what should people be doing differently that majority aren't doing right now in terms of serving those people?

So I mean, you could do this if you're a corporate, independent, self-employed, and I know you guys have had success with this, but leveraging your buyers and doing VIP buyer campaigns because if two-thirds of buyer inquiries have a house to sell and half of them are not on the market, they're not on the market because they haven't found somewhere, too many estates go around offering free no-obligation valuations, trying to find the next house to sell. If you actually match the buyer to the house and they've got something to sell, you'll start building chains.

And it works really well as a service because if you start sending out letters and the homeowner will see something because their neighbor, we've got Simon and Louise, we've got a four-bed detached, big garden, they want to be in this area because of the school catchment for that kid or whatever, if it's contemplated moving in the future, we'd love to have a conversation rather than join a free valuation.

Yeah, it triggers the conversation and the next step in the journey, doesn't it? Yeah, it's that chain of events.

And I think you've alluded to this stat before, and it's obviously commonly available. Only around 2% of the general population are ever actively on the market. Let's say they've got the house on Rightmove with a board outside, but generally speaking, especially post-pandemic, we've seen it around 20 to 25% of people may be considering the move.

And so your letter dropping at a timely moment where that consideration phase is there. And you've got Simon and Louise who aren't under any time pressures looking for four-bed detached. It just gives you the piece of mind what action is the buyer in the market for me.

Let's take action.

So on your point there, and I think you said around like initial introduction, too many estate agents sending out content or posting content, which is thinking of selling now or thinking of selling tomorrow.

No, I'm not. They're contemplating the next six to 12 months and they get a letter through the door that says someone's looking to buy a house just like theirs. So it's not a generic, we have someone for your house. They've literally gone, oh my God, they want an open-plan kitchen. They want a south-facing garden. They want to be on this side of the estate. They've literally described our house.

Maybe we get Simon and Louise in for a conversation through the estate agent that sent a letter.

But again, you can do that on social media as well. Put it out in the local Facebook groups. I've seen, so where I am, you've got the Chit Chat group of Newport Pagnell, probably 20,000 members. There are people who have posted in there as themselves, hey, we've just sold a house. We're looking for something in Newport. And the estate agents are in there going, oh, ring me. And we can have a chat when it's like, actually, why don't you screenshot that Facebook thread, put it in a letter, and say, Simon and Louise have just put on Facebook they've sold. This is what they're looking for. If you think they're moving, get in touch.

What a great way to leverage that.

Well, brilliant campaign. It shows two things though, doesn't it? One, that you're proactively trying to support someone in their endeavors to buy. So from the home-buying public perspective, they're looking at that and going, these guys are doing something different. And secondly to that, you're essentially taking what's already in the public domain and claiming it almost to an extent as becoming your own. So it's just that proactive piece.

And you saying about the more specific in nature, the better.

I had one earlier this year, had a client looking for a property that had land, but they wanted a very specific amount of land. Well, obviously I use the tools that we've got available to us, sent out 92 letters. And that turned into nine MAs. But one person I'd written the letter to, basically when she rang me, she initially wasn't going to call because it was a scam because it was so specific. She said to me, I felt like you were almost exclusively describing my property. It was that specific, but it was 92 properties in a five-mile radius of a central pin point. Three of them did want to list. Unfortunately, none of them were appropriate for the client.

But the point is, it led to those relationships.

So yeah, really, really good point.

So we're another hole down, but we didn't lose the hole. So it's still a three-shot lead to Mr. Gates. There is still hope.

Simon, we talked about the value of buyers, and I think, would you agree that a lot of estate agents tend to focus too heavily on sellers? And actually, if they could change their mindset around how best to engage with buyers, would you agree that there's a greater opportunity to serve the buying community as there is the selling?

100%, if you think that literally 99% of an estate agent's marketing, as we said earlier, is focused on a free valuation. You're looking to sell, all the banner ads on Rightmove say, "Click here to get a valuation." No one is saying, "Click here to let us help you find your next home." So, it's such a massive part of the market. If you go back to old school, before CRM, before Rightmove, and we're talking... what’s your call them?

I didn’t ever use them, but I heard the word.

No, the boxes.

The boxes?

The hot box.

Hot box, thank you.

Hey, I started my career. Not long enough to remember the hot box, but it was just after that. But, you know, when a house would come on the market, it was like, right, who have I got that I can match to that? Estate agency is no different today—it’s about matching buyers to the right houses. But I think when you're just going out and chasing free valuations and looking to sell tomorrow, you're just vanilla, you're the same as everyone else. But if you can say, “Tell us what you want, and we’ll go find it,” too many estate agents will say, “I'll just check Rightmove every day.” If you're saying, "Check Rightmove every day," why are they going to come contact you?

And I think the key thing as well is that, why would someone go and contact all the local estate agents in Newport Pagnell, for example, if they're looking to buy a house when they can just go to Rightmove? So what are estate agents doing to combat that? It’s about saying, “Come to us, and we’ll help you find a property before it hits the market,” or we’ll do a sneak peek or pre-launch. There’s so much gold in buyers, and it’s just about leveraging that more.

And Jack was speaking about it off-camera, but I know Perry talks about it, the onward negotiation. If someone views a house and doesn't buy through you, tell them you’ll help them negotiate their next one or let me help you find something. There’s so much extra revenue that could be had, particularly in the self-employed model where you can offer a bespoke concierge service. Why not offer that to clients?

Brilliant.

(car engine roaring)

Right, so we're not going to mention the score, we'll leave that to a little bit later. However, we have just walked past after the eighth hole. There's a property that's on the market right on the edge of the golf course. What are your thoughts on that? What would you do in that instance? It's on the market with another agent, it hasn’t sold—should it be door-knocked?

You know, we said after that happened, "Oh, let’s record that, that’d be a good bit." And as you said it, I’ve actually thought even more about it. I haven’t preempted thinking this, but considering I’m a member here, I’m now thinking, if I was an agent and I’m a member of this golf course, what a great excuse to knock the door. I'm eight holes into a round, I know you're on the market, and there are some things I think you could benefit from. There’s not really a mention around the golf club, and I’d say, “I’m a member here, I love my golf.” I think that’s a great bit. I’d do some videography, me playing on the course like we're doing today. And I'd be saying that, really, there’s such a good angle in. There could even be potential promotion with the network of the golf course.

For example, with that promotion, you could get an email to go out to the members on behalf of the club saying, "There is a property on the market on the course, this is what it is, if you want to come and have a look, contact Simon."

So you are for door knocking, not anti-door knocking?

100% for it, but I'd say two things on it. One, what used to happen to me with competitors, they’d knock on a door and say, "You’ve got a two-week cooling-off period, we’ll do it for half a percent"—that’s not cool. I think the false knock on the door, "Hello, can I help you find somewhere," is nonsense. But if you genuinely mean it, let me help you find someone. They say, “I want to live on Smith Street, I want to be that side because I want a south-facing garden.” You then go and door-knock houses on that street, or send letters to that street, or you go on Rightmove Plus.

...and see if anything's withdrawn in recent years, that's fine. Just the door knock has to all be about giving value to that person rather than what can you get out of it. And as long as you've got their best interests at heart, there's no reason why you shouldn't do it.

Great feedback Simon, let me go find that house.

(laughing)

So Simon, we've talked about door knocking, we've talked about direct mail campaigns, we've talked about how buyers can be such a great opportunity to build your marketplace.

With all of that considered, and with everything that's going on in the industry right now, the advancements in tech, AI, where do you see the industry going in the next five to ten years?

Oh, what a question.

Self-employment will continue to grow. I don't think that's stopped. There'll be lots of mergers and acquisitions that keep happening. I think fees will continue to come down for most because whilst you guys, for example, are wanting to deliver the best value and experience and result for your clients, therefore justifying a higher fee, too many agents go, "What can I cut back so I can charge less?" Because they've got it in their head that by charging less, that's what the client wants.

So you'll see agents who are still not doing professional photos, don't have floor plans, or are not investing in video because they're like, "I can just cut back on that." But the very best agents are thinking, "How much more value can I add so I can charge a client more."

Interesting dynamic there.

So I suppose with the way you've delivered that, it's quite fair to say that your belief is in increasing value, therefore increasing fees, et cetera. What does it look like for these people that are lowering the value of their proposition though? Does that lead to... I suppose, let me give my opinion and then it'd be interesting to hear yours.

The lower you deliver your fee, there's only so low you can go before you start paying for yourself, or you're free, right? So that surely is a business model that has an end. There is no longevity in being the cheapest or second cheapest in the marketplace. But as Dan Kennedy said, there is a significant advantage to being the most expensive.

So what would your advice be to these people that may be listening in? And I don't know whether they will be because they may not be the types that are thinking and growth-minded, but they are. And they are in that battle where it's like, "Okay, someone's charging half a percent, they're coming at 0.4," and what do they need to do? Where do they start to start changing that dynamic?

Well, first of all, I think I've said this on other podcasts, and another prediction I've got is that, yeah, essentially to be the cheapest in the market right now, you have to be paying the seller to list their property because the cheapest is free right now. And I think there will be probably a heavily backed company who does actually start saying, "James, you're the seller, I'll give you £200 to list your property." And then they'll be selling off by leads to conveyancing and mortgage referrals, for example.

And just on that point, there are agents who will try and generate revenue out of referrals to solicitors, which is fine as long as it's not conditional selling. But rather than concentrating on getting £100 or £200 off a solicitor referral, maybe work with a solicitor that's got a proven track record of a lower fall-through rate and will get transactions through quicker because cash flow is such an issue for agents.

So that thing there. And then in terms of the other end of that, by charging the most, I'd use that as a USP. And people go, "Why would I go for you if you're the most expensive?" Well, if I'm the most expensive, I'm going to be spending the most on marketing, the most on training, the most on tech, and the most on the most amazing people.

James, you're the seller and just role-play for example. Right, another agent's come in and said half a percent. What's the first thing they're going to cut costs on? It's not going to be paying themselves; it's going to be on your marketing, which is going to reduce your chances of selling, which is why literally half the properties that come to market don't sell. It's just not being marketable.

Ready?

Oh, there we go. That's the game.

So Simon, we are in September. We've got a quarter left to go for the year. Imagine you are Simon Gates, the statuette, whether that's with your brand or standalone, what would be the plan for the final quarter to ensure it's been an amazing 2020 quarter?

Yeah, I'd say really speed up and don't slow down on things. I was actually saying off-camera earlier about getting an analogy in. Didn't know you were going to ask that. And I think the analogy might be quite good. As we get towards the end of the year, a lot of agents might slow down as we come towards Christmas.

It's a bit like, for example, hitting a... so James, I think you were like this from what we discussed earlier, it's a bit like hitting a golf shot into a hole that's got a lot of wind on it. And what most golfers do is they take too little club, but you actually want to hit an extra club.

So my point is, so many agents towards the end of the year will go, "It's a bit quiet, let's spend less on marketing." You actually want to double down on marketing, spend more on it. And you'll be getting your pipeline going for January.

So my last few years of agency, I did a lot of direct mail campaigns towards the end of the year. January came along, and I had loads of appraisals in my diary, whereas all the other offices, it would be in January.

...and they'd be like, where's all our appraisals? Well, it's because I've done the work 90 days prior to it. So yeah, don't take your foot off the gas.

I think I'm conscious this is time relevant, but we've got the big budget coming up at the end of October. A lot of people sit on their hands and go, what might happen there? Again, agents should be saying, typically mortgage approvals go up the month after the budget. Why not act now before there's lots of competition in the market.

Sound advice.

So essentially Zig, whilst everyone else is zagging.

Absolutely, yeah.

Unique opportunity, hitting the door, hitting more people with more of a marketing message.

So essentially what you're saying is, this next 90 days, there'll still be business to be done, but you're building your pipeline, you're building your audience, you're building your platform ready for January so that you're front and center, because a lot of people over Christmas start to think about moving, don't they? It's like August coming into September. I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to find September is always a really busy period after the summer holidays, same for January.

You think about just the Christmas thing as well.

So we're discussing Christmas as well, sending out Christmas cards. So some really interesting data came out from Royal Mail recently. So one first class stamp has gone up. So agents can spend less money on direct mail because it costs more. So zigging, zagging kind of thing. Lots will spend a lot more time on socials. So actually maybe double down on direct mail.

I think the average household compared to 10 years ago, you get four pieces of direct mail a week compared to 14. There's a lot less direct mail coming through the door. So imagine as Christmas comes, nice personalized Christmas cards to people who've bought or sold through you in your past, or Christmas cards to people on the market right now. And that will set you up for January.

Brilliant, brilliant.

So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Today has been an absolute whitewash from opening the gates over the avenue. What was the end result, seven and six? So for those of you that don't know golf, he absolutely whooped us and there were two of us. So well done.

Thank you.

To say, in our defense, Simon played the best round of golf he's played in 20 years.

He is worth not mine.

He is worth not mine, but it's been a pleasure. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you for hosting us at your wicked golf club. Anyone that is a client of Simon, make sure you tap him up to make sure he gives you the invite because it is a great round of golf, lovely facilities, and average company.

Simon, really, really appreciate you joining us on the pod. And until next time, that was the Elite Agent Masterclass.