How to Transition from Corporate to Self-Employed: Chris Webb’s Estate Agency Journey

Introduction

• Chris Webb is Currently in Portugal, but still working 8-5 daily.
• Chris was originally a performance director for the Property Franchise Group, managing 100+ franchisees.
• Now, Chris runs his own estate agency consultancy, focusing on helping self-employed agents grow and succeed.

Chris's Journey to Consultancy

• Began as an estate agent at 18, worked his way up to performance director.
• His role at Property Franchise Group taught him the value of helping others grow their businesses.
• Wanted more personal impact, shifted from managing many to focusing on fewer, more motivated individuals.
• Left his corporate role to focus on coaching self-employed estate agents.

Making the Leap to Self-Employed Coaching

• Chris realised he wasn’t happy chasing promotions, money, and corporate status.
• He refocused his life around three things: traveling, meeting people, and helping others.
• Built a business allowing him freedom and happiness, working from anywhere.

The Shift in Estate Agency: Moving to Self-Employment

• Chris's consultancy now focuses solely on self-employed estate agents.
• Believes in quality over quantity—only works with agents committed to growth and success.
• His coaching model: If their business doesn’t grow, they don’t pay.

Mindset is Key

• Chris emphasizes that mindset is the biggest block to success.
• Many agents get in their own way by overthinking and doubting.
• He encourages a "just do it" mentality—maximum action, less hesitation.

Starting Strong: Focus on Outputs

• When starting out, focus on what you can control: marketing, lead generation, and outreach.
• Don’t worry about immediate results—focus on the volume and consistency of output.

Future of Estate Agency

• Sees a major shift toward self-employment in the next 5-10 years.
• Predicts that 25% of the industry will be self-employed.
• More clients are starting to favor smaller, more personalised service over large corporate agencies.

Practical Advice for Self-Employed Agents

• Chris shares his “first move” for launching an estate agency:
  • Record a quick video message introducing yourself.
  • Send i

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Transcript

Welcome to another episode of the Elite Agent Masterclass. Today, myself and Jack Durkin are joined by Mr. Chris Webb, who is currently... over in Portugal and has been for the last five weeks, but as he explained to us offline, has still been working solidly eight till five every single day, coaching, delivering his value, giving absolute brilliance across all platforms. Chris and I first came into contact via LinkedIn. I saw his content. I thought, yeah, this guy knows some stuff. So we've got to get him on the pod and get some of that wisdom out of his head and into the Elite Agent Masterclass. So Chris, welcome to the pod. Thank you for having me on. It's been very kind of you. Thank you very much. That's an absolute pleasure. And I'm glad to hear that you're having some downtime whilst you're in Portugal. But I know, obviously, you and I have spoken prior to now. So I've got to know you a little bit. This is the first time you're getting to meet Jack. And I know Jack's got a few questions that he wants to fire your way from the get go. So Jack, over to you. Thank you, Chris. I've been following for a little while now and seeing a lot of your content that you've been putting out there. And it seems that your audience is growing wider and wider. I'm seeing more and more of your stuff popping up. But I'm really curious to find out where it all started. So with your now coaching career, where did that begin? So I initially was an estate agent for a very long period of time, hence the wrinkles and the Botox is trying to cover up these days and hairline and whatever else it might be. So I was an estate agent from the age of eighteen. It was kind of my first sort of proper job, let's call it in the grand scheme of things. And I started off as a junior negotiator where I would work six days a week and my one day of the week off was a Wednesday which is really great to have a social life when you're eighteen years old and your one day of the week off is Wednesday and your friends are either at work or at university and then kind of rose my way through the ranks and did all the correct stages of negotiator senior negotiator branch manager all that sort of stuff and then ended up some fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years later with the property franchise group where I was performance director. And effectively, my role there was kind of my first job sort of off the front line effectively. And at any one time, I'd look after a hundred or so franchisees. And my goal there was to basically make them as productive and effective as possible. Because as being a franchisor, if your franchisees are doing really well, then you're doing well as well. So that was kind of my goal there was to take those hundred or so businesses and go, right, how can we make these guys more profitable? How can we make them as rich as we possibly can do? So if they're getting really rich, then as a franchisor, you're getting quite rich as well. So that was sort of my first taste of sort of helping other people. I think for me that was sort of a bit of a drug and I I only I do my job now because I enjoy helping people it sounds very cheesy and oh you must be in it for the money chris and all this sort of really I just enjoy helping people and the fact to get paid for it is absolutely a massive bonus in the grand scheme of things so I'll do the property franchise group for five years and it was great amazing employer great place to work but when you're working with you know a hundred two hundred people for example at any one time it's a little bit like herding cats and you'd have a video call with a hundred two hundred people and half the people will be having lunch often be walking their dog half of them would be falling asleep sort of thing they'd be like ten twenty percent that were you know really taking notes and really taking on board but a lot of people kind of you know wasn't quite sinking into that sort of one-to-many approach so with the estate and consulting my goal was to kind of downsize that I suppose a bit more customizable because I don't want to work with two hundred people I've been there I've done that I've got the t-shirt thank you very much What I'd rather do is just work with that percentage on that video call that would have been the ones paying attention. If you wanted to grow their business and make a success of it, great, I'll work with you guys. That's absolutely brilliant. We want to make a success. We're all on the same boat together. We're all kind of pulling in the same direction. So that's ultimately my goal is just to help the guys I work with. That's really where it comes down for me. And for me, if I listed a house tomorrow, I would be moderately happy about it. But one of my clients lists a house, I'm like, you know, winning at the World Cup sort of thing. So for me, that's what it's all about. Love that. I love that. I love the bit in the middle where you almost caveated it with it sounding a bit cheesy, but it's the reality of doing something you love, isn't it? That, you know, you do it, And you love it. And as a product of that, it's like the Japanese philosophy of Ikigai, isn't it? You know, you've got you found your Ikigai. You've found something you're good at, found something you love, found something that can pay you. What's the fourth one? Is it the fulfillment? I know there's four. And so you found your Ikigai because you're doing something you love and get paid. And so you also we talked about it offline. You're in Portugal have been for the last five weeks. Yes, you're working online. But it presents you the opportunity of location freedom and lifestyle freedom. So I think good on you. You're doing something you absolutely love and you can pick and choose what you do and where you do it. I think that this is a slightly longer story, but I'll paraphrase it slightly. So shameless pitch for PropEx, which I'm talking about next week. I think it was a week after. I'm doing a big talk about this for twenty minutes. I wasn't happy with where my life was historically. So I went through all the stages, went to the ladder steps and I did this and did that sort of thing because I kind of thought that's where the world wanted me to be. And you kind of go and go for promotions and get more money and get the car and the house and all this sort of stuff sort of thing. But yeah, a couple of years ago, I was like, actually, I'm not happy with what I've got. I'm not happy with where I am in life sort of thing. Yes, I could do the same job. I could turn up from nine to five every single day, go to the gym in the evenings and go to dinner on a Friday night sort of thing. But actually I was kind of I wouldn't say living someone else's life. Cause that sounds a bit over the top, but I definitely, uh, I'd done everything that everyone else had wanted me to do and sort of expect me to do. And kind of my life had become a democracy where everyone who was in my sort of sphere, your, your mom, your dad, your friends, your cousins, whatever it may be. They all sort of had a say over my life and about how that actually looked sort of thing. And basically I wasn't happy. And I literally thought to myself, well, what I've done for the last, whatever, has got me to this stage, but I'm not happy where I am. And I thought, actually, well, what makes me happy? So things that make me happy. I like traveling. I like seeing the world and going like exotic places and, you know, getting terrible British sunburn and whatever else it might be. I enjoy helping people and I enjoy meeting new people. so if those are things I enjoy well if I just focus on those three things I enjoy so I've basically built a business which is focused around helping people number one is involved meeting lots of new people which is absolutely amazing and thirdly if I want to go and work from four to five weeks and still do my job to the highest standard I can do amazing high fives around so I've kind of, over the last couple of years or so, I've kind of tried my hardest to change my life from a democracy to more of like a dictatorship where actually I do what I want to do and you don't like it, you can jog on basically. That was a polite version. So I have got a question. And I think, sorry, Jack, because I know that you have got something on the tip of your tongue, but I need to dive in because it's on this thread. And so you obviously walked away from doing the operational support role in the franchise group. which would have inevitably come with a very good salary, all of the, you know, the credentials, you know, that badge of honor that you're in charge of lots of people and franchise. I was there when I was original director at Purple Bricks. You kind of have this feeling of this grand, this grand feeling of, okay, I've made it. And you're living another life, aren't you? You're living someone else's life where it's like, but do I want it? I've got it, but do I really want this? Is this who I want to be? What was your straw that broke the camel's back? What was that moment where you went, I don't want this no more? So when I first got the job, lots of people in the head office were like, oh, you're doing really well in life because you're so young to get this job. Everyone else who had that job before me or after me was twenty years, thirty years my senior, effectively. And so lots of people are like, oh, you're doing really well, you're really successful. And that gets you through for a period of time because you're like, oh, everyone else is saying I'm doing really well, so therefore I must be doing really well sort of thing. I think for me, I look to the other people within the business, and they're great people, hardworking, and they live their own life, etc. But I thought to myself, I could stay at this job for the next twenty years. And I was, whatever, early thirties when I first started, so I could stay at this job for the next twenty, thirty years or so, cushy pension, cushy company car, you know, working Monday to Friday, nine to five, and I could be quite happy with that. And I could, you know, I could literally live the next thirty years of my life, and that could be it. And that's fine. If that's people's choice, that's absolutely fine. I don't argue it for a second sort of thing. But I think I got to the point where I thought to myself, am I just going to sit at this desk for the next thirty years, having these same conversations over and over again? Or am I going to kind of push myself, challenge myself and actually try something new? And I thought, actually, and as I said earlier, I wasn't particularly happy at that stage of my life. So I thought, well, I've tried it. It's going well in one respect. So the professional side of things is going really well, but the personal side of things isn't going so well. So basically, what have I got to lose? Love that. Love that. Fortune favors the brave. Yeah, that kind of answers part of the question I was going to ask in terms of that transition from working with the franchisees at your previous role. And now I'm guessing, is it a lot of self-employed agents that you work with in your current role now, or is it a mix of employed and self-employed? Yeah, so I'm a big fan of having a niche, and I like to think I've got quite a good niche. So initially, when I first launched, I was, well, I still am the estate agent consultancy, but it was, you know, any estate agent, you know, you've got the sale board, I'm the guy sort of thing. Whereas over the next sort of three, four, five, six months sort of thing, I found I got more and more traction with the self-employed estate agents and the brokerages as well sort of thing. They're kind of my main area that were getting my sort of notice and I was helping them and it was kind of fulfilling both our sort of potentials on that side. So over the coming weeks, months, years sort of thing, I've niched and niched and niched and niched. So now my only clients I work with are self-employed estate agents or the brokerage models behind the scenes. So that's it basically. I don't think I've got any clients at the moment that are sort of on the payroll with regard to working for Countrywide, Connells or whatever it may be. I'm not really interested in the nicest possible way. I like working in the self-employed world because it's a quick moving ship. And I can go have a video call with somebody and say, these are the changes you need to make in your business today. We can have a video call in two, three weeks time. And they'll be like, yep, great, did it. And I've had a great result off the back of it. Whereas if I sat in a head office meeting with Connells Countrywide, for example, I go, great guys, here's the ideas you need to do to revolutionize your business and make yourself a lot more money. And by the time I actually got to the ground floor, you know, a year later and got diluted down, it just wouldn't be the same. So I like bang for buck in results. And you get that more in my experience with the self-employed model service. You can see those quicker results as well. So I'm guessing from what you mentioned earlier is you're dealing with more quality over quantity compared to what you're dealing with in the franchise. model you as that uh yeah so without sounding too much like a um can I swear in this in the podcast a lot of swearing in so oh fine okay well okay it's not even that bad but without sounding like a complete dick um if you have a video call with myself wanting to work with me you're more likely to get a no than you want to get a yes so for me the business model is built on clients improving their business So your business doesn't improve. I'm literally free of charge. So if you work alongside ourselves and your business doesn't grow, Why should I send you a bill? In the same way that if you guys got instructed on a house tomorrow and you didn't sell it, that's your job. Therefore, you're not going to put an invoice at the end of it. So my goal is to get you to grow your business. So why would I be cheeky enough to send you an invoice if your business doesn't grow? So therefore, if I have an initial video call with somebody and they come to me and go, Chris, I kind of work a few days in the business. I've kind of not paid much attention. I've kind of crashed it into the crash bar a few times over the last six months or so. Can you drag it off of that crash bar and make it into a decent business? Technically, yes, I could do. I absolutely could do. But for me, the business is made to take people who are on chapter one, but want to get to chapter five as quick as possible. So if you're motivated and hungry and you've got the kind of will behind you to win, fantastic. You're absolutely up the right sort of street for clients by themselves. If I think you're not on board with growing your business, I probably won't waste my time because I could be the most amazing personal trainer in the world. But if you don't turn up to the gym, what's the problem? Yeah. I must admit, that's why when we very first sort of came into proper contact, when we, you know, we spoke, we had a conversation around, you know, how your model works, how our model works and all that sort of stuff. Then we progressed to having the podcast episode together. I sensed that quite early on in the conversation that there's a lot of synergy between your approach to business and the way in which we run ours. And I really like that it's Especially when we're bringing new partners into the business, it's about helping them understand that you don't need to be all things to all people. And actually, I had an appointment on Saturday where I met with a client and I was like the fifth valuation that they had booked. And I was like, that's cool. I'm one of five, no problem at all. And they were like, so talk to us about the age old stuff, the fees and the contract terms and like that. look, I want to be really straight with you from the get-go. From my perspective, this is about whether or not we can work together. So I'm likely not to be the cheapest option that you're going to consider, but I'll share with you how we can work together. And if you think I'm a good fit for you and I think you're a good fit for me, then we could potentially look at doing business at the end of this meeting. They were like, wow, that's the first time we've had an estate agent, you're the last one to come and see us, who's actually talked to us like it's a partnership rather than pitching to us. Well, it's got to be right for both sides. Otherwise, what's the point in us working together? And it completely changed the dynamic of the appointment, completely. And so when we first came into contact, I was like, this is a guy who isn't about mass. This is about quality. And so I had a question connected to the estate agency consultancy and its growth. So when did you launch? April last year. So we're kind of a year and a half old. So you're about eight months old and it's fair and safe to say that you've become, look, you're a very humble guy. So I'll say it for you. You've become a very well-known face very quickly. This will be by design. You strike me as a very organized, very structured, very methodical operator. How did you formulate your plan? Because I do feel that your growth and your way of doing things, you'll probably then, you've got a blueprint or a framework that you overlay into these agents that you're taking from chapter one to chapter five. So without giving away too much of your secret sauce that people pay you for, what was your strategy for launching the business to get such prominence so quickly? So, I think there's a mindset bit to it, number one. So, I think the mindset part of it is probably the biggest issue. Probably the actual, you know, registering a limited company, for example, it takes, what, ten minutes on Companies House? You pay your twelve quid, seventeen quid these days. Yeah, it's not a big deal. People are like, oh, I'm now a company director. You're like, okay, fantastic. You log on to Companies House and you pay twelve quid. Well done. So the actual practicalities of doing things isn't really that hard. It's just getting out of your own way, a lot of it. So actually for me, I was like, well, the biggest blocker in most people doing anything in their life is just them saying, oh, I can't do it, or I'm too old, or I'm too young, or I'm too tall, or I'm too short, whatever it may be. So I kind of had a bit more of a, well, I've sworn once, so I'll swear twice. It's more of a fuck it, I'm just going to go for it sort of thing. Maximum attack. No one's going to invite me to the table and say, oh, you know, come on, Chris, come to the table with us sort of thing. You know, so I know that for me, if I don't get my elbows out and say, actually, this is what I want to do. And this is what I kind of want to prove and how I can help people. No one else is going to invite me to that. So I, for me, my biggest cheerio of my business, I think that's absolutely rightly so. And that's not like an arrogant Chris is amazing way, because there's many things I can improve upon, but on with regard to kind of actually just doing stuff, I don't, I don't overthink about what I. What's going to work? What's not going to work? I go, I think this is the plan going forward. And I just action it from there. So I don't get in my own way too much with regard to, yeah, I think doing a podcast is a great idea. Great. I can organize a podcast. Fine. No problem at all. Is it technically hard? No. I send a Zoom link out. I press record and I talk to people for half an hour. Is the emotional part of it? What if no one listens to it? What if I sound stupid? What if I stutter a few times? Yeah, absolutely. But I try as much as I possibly can do to minimize that as much as I can to make it a smaller deal in my business. Is there time where I think to myself, should I be doing this? Should I be doing that? Yeah, absolutely. It's completely human when you do that sort of stuff. But generally, I think ninety percent of it is just turning up and sort of going, yeah, I think it's a good idea. Let's go for it. Maximum attack. It might be amazing. It might be terrible. So, you know, I launched my first book in the beginning part of the year. I think it's like January, February sort of direction. My goal, I thought if I sell, I say sell, I give away the book for free of charge. So if I said if I kind of get rid of fifty copies, I'll be over the moon. I'm doing this kind of as much for me and the business as I am for people actually kind of reading it. It's now up to, it's knocking on about a thousand copies that have been sort of sold in inverted commas and people have downloaded it. Great, amazing. That's fine. My expectation, if I got fifty, I'd be over the moon with that. That's absolutely great. So all you can do is focus on your outputs for your business and then kind of the results will come off the back of it. So for me, it's about looking at it going, right, OK, well, how can I be as many places as it possibly can be, with as many messages as it possibly can be, and kind of regard as well as it possibly can be. it's quite a logical step to go, right, well, if you want to be respected, if you write a book, people respect you because you're an author. I've got a B at GCSE English and I managed to write a ninety five thousand page book, which people bought a thousand times. Great. So if I can do it, everyone out there listening to this podcast can absolutely do it as well. You know, I I sound like a posh idiot. I talk too quickly. I mumble occasionally. I've got a podcast. Every episode gets over a hundred listeners on my podcast. I'm over the moon for this sort of thing. so the biggest part of it is not getting yourself in the way of these things because you know what you need to do you know if I said you guys went to you both right guys let's get in shape let's get fit sort of thing let's write down the top three things we need to do to get fit you'd be like well go to the gym a bit more probably eat healthy and cut out the junk food okay well if we just did that for the next year or so we can meet up in a year's time we're like guys we're in great shape so it isn't particularly complicated to get a business that is doing well and cooking on gas. You just need to do the stuff that you know you should be doing. It's so true. It's so true. The reason I've grinned from the point you mentioned the word mindset is because that's literally where when we onboard a partner or we have a conversation with anyone that's talking to us about any form of coaching or support, it's like, you've got to get this right first. You've got to get your mind right first because nothing else is going to work unless your head is in the right place. And so, yeah, it's such a powerful statement. Was there any inspiration behind the direction? I've obviously watched your journey and I saw your book come out. I've seen your interactions with certain businesses and the way I've been on the pod. I see your LinkedIn content. And I feel like there's probably one person that springs to my mind that potentially could have been an inspiration behind the journey you've been on. Has there been any sort of mentors or inspirations for you that have led you on the journey? Um, in the, well, there's many, there's many. So I literally, I'm doing a LinkedIn post next week about, um, I wouldn't say copying is the wrong word, taking inspiration from people and kind of nicking the best bits sort of thing. So for example, if I was going to run a Facebook ad tomorrow, what do I know about Facebook ad design? Very little, but there's people out there. So there's the Daniel Priestley. So I think you're probably alluding to, um, of this world who will, who will run Facebook adverts all the time. And so I literally did the other day. Daniel is currently running an advert for a, I think like a free drop-in session sort of thing. The advert came up, I thought that looks really good. Record screen, right, so click through his advert, record screen, right, turn the screen recording off. So in the future, if I want to do a Facebook ad, for example, you know, Mr. Briefly spent a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of research kind of working that out. I can just shortcut to the end. If you look at someone like James Clear, for example, James Clear emails his bulk email out every Thursday afternoon. And I'm sure he spent lots and lots and lots of money researching to find out that Thursday afternoon was the best time to send it. Thanks, James. I'll nick that. Thank you very much. I'll now send my emails on Thursday afternoon. I don't need to do no research on that in any way, shape, or form. Is there people I've taken inspiration from? Absolutely. So, you know, the sort of who's who's Daniel Priestley. Absolutely. Robin Waite, who's actually my business coach, who's been a plug in for him as well. Alex Amozi, like a lot of his stuff as well. I think that if you can kind of, resonate with people and kind of nick sort of one little bit and sort of borrow bits from them. But like, I don't want to be Daniel Creasy's clone. I don't want to be Alex Mosey's clone. I'm nowhere near that in shape. But if I can nick little bits of the content they do and think, actually, that's really clever and I can kind of just take that into my sort of world and sphere, amazing. So, you know, there's certainly things that I've done where you can kind of track and go, actually, that's from so-and-so and that's from so-and-so and you've done that because of so-and-so. And it's all kind of mushed together in this, you know, mushy shell of myself. into sort of something that kind of resembles a bit of all of it. So absolutely, I think the biggest mistake that many people make, and I'm trying to avoid it as much as I possibly can do, is thinking that somehow you're the finished product, and somehow you're the, you know, oh, I've written a book now, so therefore I'm the best so-and-so. Far from it. I've got another book coming out, which might be better than the first one. It might not be better than the first one. I don't know. Until I release it, I don't know. But I think you need to be open to the fact you can always do more, you can always learn more, And there's people out there that have been there, done that, got the T-shirt. And if I can take a little bit of nugget from what they've got, then I will be all over. I don't know where it comes from. Love that. Standing on the shoulders of giants, right? You've not stolen anything. You're just walking down the pathway that's already been trodden and picking little gems up along the way and then turning it into your own little masterpiece. Stand on the shoulders of giants. That's all it is. Progress over perfection as well. I think everyone tries to perfect and have the absolute perfect finished product sometimes, whereas you've just got to get out there and do it. I think the hardest part is getting started for a lot of people in business. And yeah, it sounds like you can get started and get some progression. I think in those situations, it's as hard as you make it. So I'm a big fan that kind of overthinking things leads to depression. So the more you overthink things, if I think, for example, I've got PropX next week, of which I don't consider myself a particularly fantastic public speaker. Again, quite a quick talker, a bit of a mumbler, a bit partial, this sort of stuff. But I know I'm going to stand in front of, you know, three, four hundred people sort of thing. And actually, I'm trying to think about it as little as I possibly can do. Because I know if I were thinking to myself, I'd think, oh, what can go wrong? What if I trip up? What if I stumble? What if I sneeze halfway through? In reality, ninety nine point nine nine percent of things aren't going to happen in any way, shape or form. But I know that I've got a really good talk to talk about. And if I learn that as much as I possibly can do, what else can I do? So I try wherever I possibly can do to blank out that sort of ninety nine percent of BS that is there. The problem isn't going to happen in reality because actually doing it isn't as bad as you think it's going to be. And once you've done it, you're like, oh, I did my first podcast. That was pretty easy. broke my first book that was all right sort of thing did my first linkedin post and went live on facebook and whatever else might be that wasn't too bad actually there's always just a starting point you can always just improve from there but you don't be the best kept secret you just never get started feel like my next question you've kind of answered it throughout the conversation but you know when you first sit down with someone and you kind of go right you're a good fit for me you've got the right mental attitude you've got the right kind of ingredients I feel like we we've got a good dynamic here when you first sit down with someone What is your first port of call with them? What process, if you were sitting down with someone to coach them for the very first time and help them, you're obviously going to dissect their business first and understand their start point. What then? What happens from there? I feel like some of what you've shared answers this, but I'd love to hear it encapsulated. Yeah. So I think as, as businesses, all businesses there to fix problems. So if you're thirsty, you have a Coca-Cola, if you're hungry, you get McDonald's, you have all businesses there to kind of fix a problem. So first goal of any business is to find out what their problems are. And so with the clients in, in, before they start working with myself, I literally will say to them, right, where are we today? You know, obviously a bit online, you've got ten hours of a sale. Your presentation's a bit rubbish. You're doing X, Y, and Z sort of thing, right? Where do you want to be in the future? Let's fast forward, twelve months down the line. Where do you want to get to? And they're like, I want a hundred grand. I want to have Wednesdays off, pick my kids up from school. Great, cool. That's kind of where we're there and we're there sort of thing. What's the problems between those two? What are the issues that are holding you back from getting there to there? And they'll go, well, I'm rubbish at lead generation. The market appraisal instruction rate isn't very good. My fee's not very high to get that sort of direction. Okay, great. Well, let's ignore the rest of the noise that I could have talked about. Let's just focus on the problems we can go in that situation. So that is kind of the starting block for any business relationship is understand what problems you are fixing. And if you don't know what problems you're fixing, speak to your clients and say, how have you found moving house or coming on the market with us or selling with us? And you're not looking for positive news here. You're looking for bad news. You're looking for them to go, I was really stressed out when it came to moving house or it really frustrated me tidying up when the kids were out and all the sort of bits and pieces. Great, you can fix that problem. So first point of business is what's the problems in front of us and how can we fix it? On a more granular level, if I got dropped into an estate agency business today and they said, right, Chris, you're here for twenty four hours. Let's get as many improvements in the business you possibly can do. The first thing I would look at is the available stock. because it's the lowest hanging fruit because, you know, a change of the marketing or a change of the price or anything around that, you can go from having ten properties for sale and no properties under offer to having five properties for sale, five properties under offer. And now you've got a twenty five pound pipeline going into business and makes a difference between you kind of surviving and not surviving. So on a granular level, the lowest hanging fruit in most of these businesses, what they've got available at the moment and what they're doing with that. Love it, yeah. That kind of really opens up to my next question as well, I think. I feel we've kind of moved it on to talking a little bit more about the employed agents and you obviously work with a lot of, sorry, self-employed agents. You obviously work with a lot of self-employed agents. I think a lot of our audience will be those who are considering self-employed or maybe already self-employed. So what would you say the biggest challenges that you've noticed self-employed agents or those considering self-employed would face or are facing? So the biggest issue you've got as a self-employed estate agent today is does anyone even know who you are in any way, shape or form? Whether you think you're the best estate agent in the world or the worst estate agent in the world, best advertising, worst advertising. If we went to them saying, great, you're going to sell your property next week. Let's get a couple of estate agents around. Are you even on that list? Do they even know you exist in any way, shape or form? when you first launch your estate agency business, most of your time is gonna be spent there waving your hand, not literally, saying, I'm an estate agent, I can sell your property, I can help you. So that is the first difference. And I think the differentiator between the two parts of estate agency is that Most when they go self-employed, they see it as I'm a great estate agent. Put me in the living room and I'll convert it. I'll get on the market. I'll sell it on greater fees, all that sort of stuff. But actually, there's a whole different chapter to your business, which you are missing completely there. And that is actually having a functioning estate agency to support you being an estate agent. So I speak to clients every day and I speak to people who aren't clients as well. Some have got an amazing business. They're making tons of money. But other ones who are at different ends of the spectrum and they're just kind of trying to turn a corner sort of thing. Actually, if you've got both those people in your living room for a valuation, you'd struggle to tell the difference. You would go, they're both great people. They're both great estate agents. They pay the right sort of price. They tell me how they're going to sell their property. But the difference between the ones that are actually great and the ones that make lots of money is they've got a business behind the scenes that allows them to shine and allows them to show actually how good they are. rather than kind of being the best kept secret in the town. So if you are going self-employed, maximum attack, full elbows out. No one, as I said earlier, no one is going to invite you to the table and be like, oh yeah, you can have a two percent market share. No problem at all. They want that as much as you want that. So you need to go, elbows out, I'm here and I'm taking this from the local estate agent and this is how I'm gonna do it. So you need to have that mindset, head down, push forward. And for the first two, three months or so, I would focus purely on output of your business. I wouldn't give a monkey's about input in any way, shape or form. So what I mean by that is that You should be looking at, right, what's the most amount of marketing I can deploy for the next couple of months or so? What's the number of the doors I can knock on, leaflets, withdrawn letters, all this sort of stuff, social media posts, et cetera. Let's just focus on that. To come back to our gym analogy, if you guys spend six hours a day on a treadmill, you're going to lose weight. It's just like maths. You can do whatever you like out of style. It's just that is going to happen in reality. So let's just focus on getting that six hours on a treadmill every day, which is if I knock on thirty doors a day, if I get a certain amount of letters out, if I get a certain amount of leaflets out, if I put a certain amount of social media content out there, the rest will fall off the back of it. So try not to. this is quite a hard thing to do. Try not to worry too much about the input, what's coming into your business. Focus on more what you can get out, because that's what you can control. You can control what marketing goes out from your business day by day, whether it's the first leaflet or the one thousandth leaflet, you've got no idea. Just because someone phoned back up my first leaflet doesn't mean I'm the best leaflet dropper in the world. It's not the worst leaflet dropper in the world, it's my one thousandth. But what I can control is the amount of marketing my business distributes to actually put my flag up the pole and say, I'm an estate agent in your local area and I can help you if you're X, Y, and Z. Do you know, the reason I chuckle is it's almost like this conversation is a bit like we've worked with Chris and just full disclosure, we haven't worked with Chris. I'm sure there'll be opportunities somewhere down the line where we will collaborate because I know from the conversation I've had with you, there's a lot of synergy. I'm sensing that Jack probably feels exactly the same way. But the reason I chuckle is we've built throughout the course of the latter part of last year and early part of this, our Ninety Day Blueprint to launch a new agent. And much of what you've just shared in that segment there is built into our Ninety Day Blueprint around what you put in, your output and the volume of it and how you do it. And a little bit of refinement in there in the delivery mechanism and your target audience and all that sort of stuff. But it's very aligned to pretty much all of what you've just said. You can control your output. You can't control what comes back. I'm literally looking at the board the whiteboard in front of me and we we still work as agents in our business as well and on my whiteboard in front of me it's got letters and then we've got week one two three and four door knocks week one two three and four the amount of google reviews we get one two three and four and the amount of social media posts we put out and I say to laura who's in my team as long as we can hit the numbers that we want to do every single week and every single month that I hit that board I don't care what the other board says as long as we hit those I know the other board the results will follow so yeah and I also think it's also nice to reward yourself or give yourself a pat on the back at the end of the week if you've hit your output goals regardless of what the input goals look like I think it's really important to reward yourself or you know you've feel as though you've got an accomplishment or achievement by hitting those numbers. The absolute thing you should be focused on, but it is a, I wouldn't say an impossible challenge, but it's a very hard challenge. Because let's say, for example, you met up with your friends at the pub on a Friday night sort of thing. They went, oh, how's your new business going? You'd be like, well, I knocked on fifty doors and I delivered a thousand leaflets last week. They can be like, what are you talking about? How many houses have you got for sale? How many have you sold? So I appreciate that there's a human aspect to it. that you are going to want to know how many views your social media had, for example, how many valuations have come in, how many market appraisals you've converted, how many you've sold. I completely get that. And it is almost impossible to ignore that. But as much as you can do, just focus on that output going out. The thing is, though, Chris, and you do make a very valid point, and I think the two do link together, but I look at things almost like layers or funnels or, you know, like a zero to ten scale. And the way I interpret that is, unless your output is at a high enough level, it's the... I'm sure Alex Hormozy talked about it on a recent pod episode or a recent YouTube video, like... you know, this example of someone that was, he was mentoring and he basically said to them, how many of the thing have you done this week? It might, let's say it was letters. How many letters have you put out this week? And the person would say, oh, five hundred. And he was like, well, that's a rookie number. It should be five thousand, ten exit. And then we can start to measure. There's no point measuring your views and your likes and your comments and your output, your income, sorry, until such time as your output is great enough for it to be worth measuring. Yeah. It's like, It's like knocking on five doors and then measuring whether or not it's worth doing based on this part. No, go and knock fifty. Let's start measuring whether it's worth doing. We used to, at the property franchise group, we used to run boot camps. So basically anyone who was either just started or they're at a kind of like want to do better or whatever it may be, or a top achievers club, we'd run boot camps and boot camps would run for about eight weeks or so. Weekly video call. Right. This week we're talking about how to door knock, for example. homework for the week right clear off go door knocking come back next week tell us how you done that was the overall gist of it and pretty much every week there was a clear divide and let's take door knocking as an example half the room would come back and be like door knocking is the worst thing on earth it doesn't work it's been a waste of my time I'm never doing it ever again the other half would come back and be like door knocking is the best thing in the world I can't believe I've not done it sooner it's amazing it's this is that and you stand at the front of the team you're like how can I have half the room saying it's terrible and the other half who are doing the exact same job saying it's absolutely brilliant actually when you kind of boiled it down. The ones that said it terrible were like, oh yeah, I knocked on five doors, they're all out. The other ones that actually said it was really good were like, I knocked on a hundred and it was really good. I got two market appraisals off the back of it. So usually it's just that sort of, well, as Alex Olmosi says, the more better new sort of aspect to go, actually, can we just do more of it? We get a good result off the back of it, so let's just do more of it in our business and then look and improve over time. That's probably not a bad place to be. Yeah, totally, totally agree. So we've talked about your journey. We've talked about what we believe good looks like and the journey that you people should go through in terms of how they should measure and all this sort of really good stuff. What happens next now? It's almost like a chronological journey. And there was no set blueprint. Like I said before, hit record. We like to go off on these little tangents and see where they take us. And we've been on thirty five minutes. There's so much in this. There's some real gold for the listeners. What does the future in your view, what's five years from now for state agency going to look like? I think that the biggest area of growth, and you guys will be pleased to hear this, is going to be in the self-employed world. No surprises. Because that is, yeah, I see that as a fantastic place to be. And it's going to make me sound very sort of old and black and whitey here. But if that was around when I was twenty one, twenty two, twenty three years old, I'd be biting your absolute arm off to kind of get going with that. know if you look at launching an estate agency business you know ten years ago for example well first of all go to the bank get a loan of a hundred grand go find your office and all this sort of stuff whereas now you're like actually as long as I've got enough money to live for the next you know six to twelve months sort of thing uh then you're looking in the right sort of direction and the marketing spend on top of that as well etc so the bar of entry to having your own estate agency business um has dropped with regard to a financial level um which is I think absolutely brilliant so I can only see the self employed area growing. I mean, it's now it's sort of coming towards ten percent sort of direction. I'd imagine that in the next sort of five years or so, that being more like twenty five percent of the marketplace. So that's going to have a healthy jump. I think a lot of people that are in corporate world and some people will be sat in the corporate world and going yeah I'm fine I'm happy I get good pension payments I've got a company car and it's fine no problems at all good well done you sort of thing there'll be some people going actually I want to roll the dice here slightly and actually kind of back myself to actually deliver a better product and have a good business myself sort of thing so I think you're going to find more and more people over the next five years or so it's not even that in the next six months to a year or so they're going to go actually lots of these guys are having it away and doing really really well but I think the important thing to point out here is that you know, there's a social media versus reality aspect of it as well. You know, if you go on to LinkedIn these days and Instagram, it's all kind of like, follow me around the house, video tour sort of thing. And it's like, some people might watch that and go, well, I can record three videos a day and I can have a successful business where I earn two hundred grand a year. That's not the reality of it. Those people who are doing a quick two minute video of following around the house and presenting a video tour, which looks very fun and joyful, actually behind the scenes have had, you know, blood, sweat, tears, hard working, door knocking, leaflet dropping to get to that stage. So, Anyone who thinks, I'm going to go self-employed, it's going to be easy. It won't be. The conversion rate for most self-employed estate agents isn't fantastic in the grand scheme of things. That's one of the reasons I did my book, is to improve that. So I want everyone to have a better business. But if you look at it and go, actually, I'm willing to put the work in, put the time in, amazing. But it's never been a better time to do it. So, you know, that is where I see the biggest growth in the estate safety world is that self-employed area that is going to grow the, yeah, over twenty percent pretty quickly, I would imagine. And there's going to be a tipping point where you go from like ten to fifteen percent like that sort of thing is really going to come around in the future. Yeah, the snowball is definitely gaining momentum. You can sense that just across the self-employed space alone on LinkedIn. It's definitely starting to really pick up some speed. I've started to notice as well, I think there's going to be agents that are going to really be driving that and brokerages that are going to be driving that as well. But it It's interesting because only recently I've started to have a lot of clients ask a question as to whether I'm self-employed or employed. I think even clients now are starting to understand that you will get a better service potentially if someone has their name above the door, it's their reputation that's on the line, then they want to work with a self-employed agent. So quite recently, we've had a couple of clients that have asked us whether we're self-employed or employed. And yeah, it's been an interesting conversation. So I think not only are the agents and the brokerage is going to be driving the self-employed, I think potentially clients will start driving that as well. Well, I think it's gone from a case where Historically, let's go back, I don't know, ten, fifteen years, whatever it may be. If you went to someone's property and said, oh, I work for myself and I don't have a shop and I don't do this, they kind of think, okay, well, bigger is better. Whereas I think sort of the mindset has sort of changed, whether that's been sort of personal brand-led or whatever else it might be, I don't know. But I think now people think that kind of smaller is better and actually bespoke is better and actually if you come forward and say, we're the biggest estate agent in town, we sell five hundred houses a year and we've sold six thousand in a street, they're like, I can't be one of a number very, very quickly. I think people will now appreciate, especially in the estate agency world, being looked after and actually having more personalized service and actually like to know the person who is going to be selling their most valuable asset rather than just being thrown on the top of the path. Yeah, it's definitely a very noticeable differentiator, having that one-to-one relationship. So it's a case of that smooth transition from start to finish, one person dealing with it. I describe it when I meet with my clients as what you're going to get from me is a concierge approach to your moving process. So if you need support with it, that's my job. I'm not going to expect you to be involved with the viewings. I'm not going to expect you to have to correct me on any part of the way in which this process has been done, because that's my job to know. If you want help with the negotiation on your onward purchase, that's my job. That's what I'm here for. That's where the value add comes. So yeah, it is an interesting dynamic. As soon as you mention the way in which, when I meet with a client, how we operate, their whole... Energy changes. Oh, I'm dealing with the business owner. And we encourage all of our partners to deliver it in the same way because they are the business owner. I think the market's driving that at the moment as well. We were very fortunate a couple of years back where properties were selling very, very quickly. They were listed on Rightmove, often sold in a few days, which sometimes pains me a little bit because I think how much longer could you have left it to attract a slightly better price? However, we're in a very different market now and I think people are looking for that more bespoke approach, someone who can be a little bit more proactive and help them get better results. So I think that the market's also a reason for why maybe that is starting to come up a lot more now as well. Yeah, I think estate agency is one of the few industries where you are a property expert, but yet you listen to the opinions of people who aren't experts. So for example, what I mean by that, let's say, for example, I took my car to the garage and they said, Mr. Webb, your head gasket's gone on your car. I wouldn't be like, yeah, but is it the injectors though? But is it the, I don't know, handbrake? Is it the tires falling off sort of thing? You're like, you're the expert. I just nod and pay. That's literally, that's part of my relationship. I turn up with the car, you fix it. I give you the money, I drive away. That's kind of part of the deal. Whereas I think, James, you actually hit the nail on the head there. You are the expert in selling properties. Therefore, you should be sort of the point of the sphere there. So if anyone's got any questions about anything property related to how a viewing goes, how property should be presented, the social media sidelines, it goes through you. It's not often people go, actually, yeah, but the vendor says they think property is worth this much, or the vendor wants to pay this much fee, or they actually want to put pictures online instead of what right we recommend sort of thing. It's like, no, no, no, you're the expert. You need to have the sort of owners behind you to sort of back yourself and say, no, no, no, this is not how you're going to sell your property correctly. This is our proven strategy to sell your property from step one to step one hundred. Don't come on board and kind of throw your random sort of stuff on top of it. It's never been tried, never been tested because you watch the hammer once. I am the property expert and this is how we do things. Yeah, you'd be the authority in that environment. And you can be the authority without being a dick, right? So, you know, it's very easy to position yourself. But I do think that a lot of the authority building comes before the meeting even takes place. You know, if you've built yourself a really strong online presence and your direct mail content is written in such a way where people are like, these guys, A, know their shit, but B, they're different. They do something a bit different. And I'm curious about that difference. Already you're starting to build that authority before you visit. I can't remember the book by Chris Voss, but it talks about the other one he did. Fulfi Agent. Fulfi Agent. There we go. And he talks about the Joker and something else. So basically, either you're the first choice agent when you walk to the front door and you're on a winner. It's kind of yours to lose. Or you are sort of second choice and you kind of have to really go for it sort of thing. So your job is to make yourself the number one pick before you walk in the front door. And there's loads of things you can do with regard to branding, market awareness, even customer service before the market appraisal, for example, that actually make it yours to lose. So that's ultimately where you want to get to. So all your stuff you're doing around selling properties beforehand and your marketing, et cetera, that is all designed to kind of put you up on a pedestal. So when you do go on that market appraisal, they're like, I already know you're different. I already know you've sold. I've already seen your social media content. I've already read your blog. I've already done that. I know you're different before you walk in the front door. Then it's yours to lose. If you're the same as everyone else, good luck, fingers crossed, one in three or whatever it may be. Give yourself a bit of a punt and see how it goes sort of thing. But your main goal is to make yourself different from every other estate agent out there. And it isn't hard. It isn't complicated. Once you know the problems your clients have, Your job is to fix them. So if you go, okay, my niche is primarily working with families and family properties. Well, some of their problems are going to be having their property clean and tidy and getting their kids out. Okay, well, let's get on the route of saying, you know, let's do a launch day for the property in a couple of weeks time. That's going to help in the cleaning side of things. And we've got a local relationship with a cleaning company. You can come around and a part of your service is the day before your property goes live. They'll come and clean the house for you to make sure it's a hundred percent for our open day. Okay, you've seen the problem, you've fixed it. It wasn't hard to do. You just thought a little bit outside the box and made yourself different from that one little aspect of it. So what are you going to do when we go on the open day? We'll probably go to the pub. Okay, you've actually organized a discount on the local pub. There's a discount in that direction. All that took from you is a phone call to a pub and a phone call to a cleaner. But suddenly, you're different than any other agent. So it's about looking at what you can offer people and you are there to fix problems. Find out what the problems are, think how you can fix them, and you'll make yourself different. Yeah, brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Top advice. I did have another question. I feel like that little segment there is a great place to finish. But one last question, one last question, and then you can go and have a dip in the pool and probably then pick up your next call. Well, you say that. I've got a client video call in six minutes. There's never a dip in the pool in the daytime. So it's going to be really, really quick. So here it is. Chris Webb estate agents tomorrow, or you join a brokerage. It doesn't really matter. You're based out of Winchester. You're about to go live. You're about to press the button and everything's about to turn on. What's the first thing you're going to do? First job is going to get my phone out of my pocket, so never far away. Hold it in front of my face and I'm going to record a video and it's going to say, hi, hope you're okay. Huge favour to ask. I'm just about to launch my state agency business in Winchester. I know, terrifying, but I've got a huge favour to ask. If you know anybody looking to sell their property, rent out their property, buy a property in the local area, it would be amazing if you could pass on my way. It'd be amazing. I'd love you forever. Thank you so much. I would then go onto my phone, go into broadcast list. I would select my entire phone book. I would then press send. So you might do a few messages because broadcast list is a maximum of two hundred and fifty six people because I've done it a few times. So it might take four different messages. But within three minutes, I've contacted a thousand people who know, like and trust me and all live within the local area who I reckon know someone who's looking to sell their property. So that's my first listing in three minutes with no money spent. So that'd be my first step. Ladies and gents, in less than sixty seconds, you heard it here first. Chris Webb, that was class because that's pre-rehearsed as well. That was so good. Chris, it's been a pleasure. I appreciate you've got to jump on with a client. You've got probably a couple of minutes of prep time. It's been amazing. Thank you very much for joining us. And I'm sure we'll speak again soon. Thank you for having me on. Brilliant. Thanks so much.