The Journey Of A Self-Employed Estate Agent | Challenges, Successes & Essential Mindset

Henry's Background and Transition to Self-Employment

Henry has been in the real estate industry for about five years, starting just before the COVID-19 pandemic. He studied retail management and business management at university and worked in customer service roles before transitioning to estate agency. He initially joined a traditional high street agency, which provided excellent training but lacked the client continuity he desired. This led him to move to a self-employed brokerage and eventually to The Avenue.

Challenges and Reflections

Henry discusses the challenges he faced during his transition to self-employment, including imposter syndrome and the uncertainty of the market. He emphasizes the importance of self-reflection and taking ownership of one’s success or failure. Henry’s journey involved a period of adaptation and learning, ultimately leading to his realisation that his success depended on his own efforts and mindset.

Key Differences Between High Street and Self-Employed Models

Henry highlights the differences between traditional high street agencies and self-employment. One significant change was the lack of a structured office environment, which he initially found challenging. However, he appreciated the flexibility and freedom of the self-employed model, allowing him to tailor his approach to each client and work around their schedules.

Building Momentum and Overcoming Challenges

Henry and James discuss the importance of building and maintaining momentum in a self-employed model. Henry shares his experience of a challenging start but emphasises the need for consistent effort and persistence. He reflects on the importance of focusing on the client’s needs and motivations rather than just the financial rewards.

The Role of Trust and Client Relationships

Henry and James agree that building trust with clients is crucial for success in estate agency. While likability is important, trust is paramount. Henry’s approach centers on genuinely helping clients, which he believes leads to better results and stronger relationships.

Advice for Aspiring Self-Employed Agents

Henry advises those considering self-employment to be relentless, focus on the client’s needs, and embrace failure as a learning opportunity. He emphasizes the importance of self-belief, community support, and being

Engage With Us
Have questions or topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes? Send us your thoughts and stay engaged with the Elite Agent Masterclass for more expert insights on transforming your career.

Connect with James on Socials:

Instagram | Facebook | LinkedIn


Connect with Jack on Socials:

Instagram | Facebook | LinkedIn


Connect with TEAM on Socials:

Instagram | Facebook | LinkedIn

Transcript

So we are back for another episode of the Elite Agent Masterclass. My name is James Humphrey-Stone and I'm joined today by Henry Till. Henry is one of our partners at The Avenue covering the Litchfield and surrounding areas. Henry joined us in January, if I remember rightly. Is that true, Henry? Yeah, back end of January. I think it was early Feb, actually, just going into Feb. Late Jan, early Feb. How are things, Henry? Yeah, all good. Starting to get some really good momentum now, which is nice. I think it's always tricky to start with, but no, I'm really happy with how things are going now. Awesome. So the idea behind this episode, so anyone that's been listening in for the previous episodes, we've been going through a bit of a journey as to when you start your self-employed business, cash flow, marketing, generating opportunities. But the idea behind wanting to get you on to record with us today, Henry, is to give people a warts and all of your journey for a state agency. What led you to this point now? The journey alongside us at The Avenue, um since let's call it february and bear in mind we're recording this going into second week of april um so best place to start how long have you been in agency henry I've been an agency for about five years. So I started just before COVID, actually. So I went to university in Leeds, studied in Leeds for three years. And then, to be fair, throughout university, I did, because before I went to university, I had a gap year, worked at John Lewis for a bit, did a bit of customer service there, went to uni, kind of further studied retail management and business management. And then throughout university, I carried on working in retail at the weekends, working at Paul Smith, the clothes retailer. And then I came out, was a bit unsure what I wanted to do. It was actually my mum who said, you might enjoy your stay agency because effectively what we did at Paul Smith, it was very kind of luxury brand. It was, you know, you're with the clients for like a couple of hours when they come into the shop. They're kind of you redesigning the whole wardrobe for you or they're going to a wedding. So and it's the same sort of service where you're offering them drinks in the store. It's not like your typical retail. So estate agency, I guess, was just that next step for me, because ultimately I've gone from like creating people's wardrobes for their wedding to buying or selling people's houses for them. So for me, it was kind of that personal touch of really making a difference for people, I would say. um and then yeah so it was kind of crazy really joining a state agency just before the crazy 2020 2021 market was quite a good time to like start really because I was almost thrown into the deep end with kind of very little training which I actually really enjoyed because I picked up a lot of well I picked it up very quickly because I had to and I was forced to so as much as maybe for most estate agents yes it was great getting all those sales in and for most it was just a bit like bedlam I would say for me, it was kind of it was perfect. So, yeah, that's how I learned. Yeah, exactly. Which I really enjoyed, to be honest with you. So it sounds like you've gone from helping people fill their designer wardrobes to now helping them sell the houses that have got the designer wardrobes filled in them. Yeah, exactly. I mean, to be fair, it's like the best of both worlds because you're almost making such a nice difference on people's lives. But then you get to see some wicked houses as well. So it's kind of a win win, really. So fast forward then, five years ago, entered the industry. And if I, well, I know this, it's not a case of remembering. You came into the industry, joined a traditional bricks and mortar, very traditional, very, in many respects, could probably be deemed quite old school business. Yeah. But they dealt in the mid to premium end of the market. You then moved from there to a self-employed brokerage and then joined us from that self-employed brokerage. So what made you make the transition from the previous brokerage to ourselves? I would say, well, even from like going back a little bit further, I definitely think I wouldn't be the agent now if I didn't work for the kind of high street agent without a doubt, because that company was amazing in terms of the training, in terms of as a first agent to go to, having never worked in an estate agency, I probably couldn't think of a better agency to go to for that type of model. But for me, ultimately, it got to I kind of did a few sales, sales, sales, sales, negotiate and then move into a valuer. And I kind of I think ultimately, like to put it short, I at the end of kind of evaluation, if I was instructed, I just didn't like the idea that I would never see that seller again. I didn't like the idea that I wouldn't kind of carry it forward. I felt like I'd spend so much time building a rapport at the initial appointment and then it would almost get passed to someone else and someone else. And that is ultimately for me where maybe, because I know for a fact, like my kind of ratio from valuation to instruction since I've gone self-employed is so much better than when I was in a high street agency. And for me, it was a period of reflection. It was kind of when I was working for the high street agency, I was like, why isn't it clicking? Why, what's wrong? Is it something I'm doing wrong? Going home, trying to analyse maybe Could I have done this differently? Could I do this better? But ultimately, I came to the decision that You know, maybe there is something out there in a state agency that does suit better to where I'm aligned. So then I decided to obviously make the leap to self-employment. And obviously the first brokerage that I went to, I really enjoyed my time there. I think the only issue for me was just the wrong area. You know, I don't have a bad word to say. I learned a lot at the end of the day. I was going into a market that was seriously hard. It was kind of just after, you know, Liz Truss' budget. The market was kind of on the decline from... two three years of having a crazy market um but ultimately yeah I don't think my heart was in it being completely honest with you um and then also well it came to the point where I kind of thought do I want to be somewhere because I think self-employment if you're doing this role you have to know you have to be not you don't have to be from the area but you've got to love that area just as much as you know the value of the property because like we always say like yourself always talks about you're selling the lifestyle of that place not just the bricks and mortar and I think that has been the biggest change for me is going into an area where I know it I've kind of grown up here it's my bread and butter and I don't you know, the motivation seems just kind of it's just natural for me. So that's kind of where I got to then in terms of the avenue. Obviously, I knew about the avenue a little bit because I was actually selling a property with Jack when I was the first high street agent. We had a kind of a split on it. So that's kind of when I first initially heard about you guys. But I didn't know that much about you, to be honest. And then slowly but surely, I kept on just seeing your boards out and about. I think the social media thing, I think watching your videos in particularly was definitely, and I think I said that initially to you when we first met for a coffee, I would say that I kind of just kept on coming up on my Instagram and things like that. And then, yeah, I had a conversation with Jack and it went well. So that's kind of where I'm up to now. The rest, as they say, is history. Yeah, well, exactly. So you made the jump. I was writing some notes as you were sharing your journey there and you made the jump from the high street to the self-employed model when you did probably quite a difficult time. What, What made you make that? Because I think there's a lot of people out there that may well be listening in that probably want to make that transition. They back themselves like you did. You weren't converting as well on the high street as you do now as a self-employed agent. They back themselves. They want to get closer to the customer's journey. They want to be able to see that customer's journey from front to back. But they have a lot of fears. One of them will be, Will it work? Is there enough opportunity? Am I good enough? That will probably be in there. Funding is another one. How did you overcome those fears and make that jump? Yeah, I would have to say, yeah, definitely. Because I did have a bit of imposter syndrome. I did think to myself, OK, you're a good agent, but are you? Because when I was in High Street, I was a really good negotiator and I really enjoyed it. And when I did make that leap to valuing, I maybe didn't hit the ground running as maybe everyone in the company was expecting me to do. So there was a period where I was thinking, you know, am I good enough? But I will be completely honest, like even after going from the first experience doing self-employment, at the end of that, I probably was definitely considering coming out of this agency. And Being honest, I think the only point at which, because everything kind of, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I wasn't sure, like, do I go travelling for a little bit again? Do I kind of go into another career? But then I knew how much I actually liked working in property. So I kind of had to sit there and think, you know, what am I going to do really? But ultimately, everything kind of shifted in a kind of a two hour period. And I'll be honest with you, that was the hour with you and the hour with Jack. And I have to be completely honest about that. I honestly don't think I would have gone for it if I didn't have that kind of hour coffee with you two. Because coming back to the imposter syndrome, I think you both said exactly the same thing to me. You, I... we got on really well, but then at the end, you both said to me, look like most agents are kind of here. We think you're here, but if you're open to what we say, if you're open to the training, we honestly think you could be like one of the best agents out there. And I guess for me, that was like, okay, let's, let's do this because I needed to, I needed to hear the kind of, I don't know what the word is, I guess. Cause I'm a little bit emotional. I kind of needed that look. You just need to go for it at the end of the day, because in the past, say again, A little bit of validation maybe? I think so. But I think it was more the fact that, you know, because fundamentally some of the changes in terms of the companies with the brokerage and things like that, it was more, and I think I said this too many times, it was more actually, you know, my heart had to be in it just as much as my head was in it. And I guess it just needed that kind of push really, which I'm happily openly admitting I needed that kind of, yeah, that kind of confidence to just say, look, you need to go for it. Yeah. Fair play. So in terms of believing myself and everything else, in terms of the risk, whatever, that went out the window. I wasn't bothered about that because even if it failed, I'm a strong believer in, you know, believing you might as well give it a go. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Because I'd argue that my last experience at self-employment was a bit of a failure for me. So I would say... And I don't actually mind admitting that because I think, you know, you've got to fail in order to succeed. And I know for a fact, like if I carry on with the momentum and work how hard I know I can work in the current job with you guys, I will always look back on it and think to myself, you know, that was a learning curve and not through the brokerage's fault, definitely through my fault, but I don't think I would be where I am if I didn't go through that experience. I think if I came straight out of high street into self-employment with yourself, I don't know. I think, yeah, failure. Well, our job is basically failing because we're going out trying to convince people to trust us to sell the house. It's, you know, you fail a couple of times a month. It's bound to happen. So I'm quite open to open to failure, really. I was about to write it down, but I didn't need to because there was a natural pause and it was writing the word failure down because I think a lot of people have this real aversion, don't they, to the word failure. And I think it's probably a societal thing. It's the way we're brought up. You know, we go through the schooling system and you either pass or fail. Right. That's the reality. And we are engineered differently. a very young age to we either succeed or we fail and I think then the connotation attached to failure is I want to avoid it and I've always I don't know why might have been upbringing I don't know it might just be personality I've always moved towards it I've always wanted to push things to the degree where could I fail here because I'll be honest it excites me a little bit that fear of the unknown that kind of well this could go wrong Great, let's do it. Let's check out. Let's push the boundaries a little bit. And I really rate the fact that you move towards it because ultimately the only thing that's finite in life is that we're all going to die, right? Failure is another opportunity to learn. Mm-hmm. And you've just shared that you reflect on your previous experience in the previous brokerage as a potential failure. And from what I knew of what you did there, I wouldn't call it that. So it's then again down to interpretation, isn't it? It's one person's interpretation of what failure and success looks like against another. But you also said that it was very much on you. And I think that's a really big piece that people should extract from what you've shared there, because I personally wholeheartedly believe that the success or failure of a self-employed agent is on the individual. Yeah, without a doubt. It's very easy today as well to blame other people and point the finger at other people. Even at the time, like pointing the finger at the market, pointing the finger at, you know, it's easy to say, well, this is like looking at other people and whatever. Whereas for me, 100%, I look at myself in the mirror thinking I could have done things differently. And, you know, I've had honest conversations with people about that. But, you know, one kind of positive can be flipped into a, one negative can be flipped into a positive. Quite easily. And I think that goes even from day to day lives of being an estate agent. I think only last weekend on Saturday, I went to evaluation, which I thought I got instructed at the actual appointment. And it turns out later on, I hadn't been instructed. And I kind of called Jack about it. I guess I was feeling a bit down about it, a bit frustrated about it. But then the next day I went and did 30 door knocks and I've got like two evaluations from it. And I know now, that next day, like it was on Saturday and I wasn't really thinking about going out on Saturday, but had the day before not happened, thinking quite frustrated. And admittedly, I had a couple of hours of being a bit like beating myself up about it, but then almost just thought, you know what, watch this and then go into the next day because I need that time. I need that kind of, like you said, putting yourself in situations you know you're going to kind of fail at some point. So, and I think there's also like that kind of feeling of failure is only there for like an hour or so. It's not as if, you know, you've got to move forward in my opinion. I think if you carry on getting... upset and carry on not upset but I mean I think all self-employed stages like I always say to you I think they're a lot more emotional they make out because we're all kind of competitive I think you've got to kind of just move forward at the end of the day because the next instruction is only around the corner so yeah well it's more focusing on the output not on about like the individual kind of appointments that you go into in my opinion you made a comment we had a group call about two weeks ago and you made a comment on that call And it really sat with me. I wrote it down. It really sat with me. Can you remember what you said? Oh, yes, I can. One instruction changes everything or something like that. It was exactly that. And I wrote it down because I was like, you made me reflect on my journey. And you're absolutely right. I'm a very emotionally led person. And yeah, When we first launched The Avenue, I shared this story with you when you onboarded with The Avenue. Yeah, I thought about this a lot. Yeah, I remember you saying you thought you were going to fail, but then suddenly it was like the next month it was crazy. Because I gave myself no choice. So it was a case of, I guess the ego took over. I can't be publicly seen to fail. I've launched this business. I've committed myself to this. You know, there's this public, I guess, in my mind, public expectation. You know, today's news is tomorrow's chip paper. Right. But in my mind, I built that up. And I think that level of self-reflection, which you've shared that you do, it can be a blessing and a curse, right? Because for some people, I think it could become tripling where that self-reflection goes to a place of negativity and goes to a place of I'm not good enough. And then that will stunt people's desire to progress. And I had exactly that. We were three months in, I'd only secured three listings and that simply wasn't gonna cut it for me. But I went into that headspace of, I don't know that I've made the right decision. Was this even the right thing? Am I even good enough? But I made a commitment. And then, like you say, you made me really think about it because one listing then changed everything for my business. And I think that's a really powerful thing that if people are looking at going down this pathway, that attitude and that mentality is the key. I think you have to understand why you're doing what you're doing as well. I would say that it's absolutely key because because this role is very different from like working in high street agencies. And it's easy to kind of if you don't really know what this kind of industry is like in terms of the self-employed estate agency. I think you do have to reflect and really knuckle down to what is your motivation, because there is no denying if you are transitioning from a high street agency to self-employment, ultimately you are under more scrutiny in my opinion you are because you're constantly trying to put yourself in people's faces people must get a bit fed up with you because you're like you're always posting you're always doing because it is so different and ultimately in a high street agency yeah okay you're being you're scrutinized by your manager to make sure you're doing your job but the only person who's really scrutinizing you in the site is yourself and you know you've got to you've got to annoy people you've got to put yourself out there so I think it's easy to like you've got almost for me, going back to why I was doing it, as soon as I kind of cracked that in terms of the door knocking, putting yourself in situations where you might feel a bit uncomfortable, it was more ultimately, and I had this conversation with Jack because Jack said to me, look, why do you do it? Because I did say to him one time, some days I do feel a bit anxious about doing door knocking. And he said, well, just think about why do you do it? What are you doing it for? Is it money? Is it to help people? And I turned around and was like, to be honest with you, it is literally just to help someone sell their house. Everyone wants more money at the end of the day. Of course they do. But I know this from studying a lot of it at uni. The money motivation only gets you so far. So I think ultimately... I just said to Jack, I said, look, I actually just want to help people sell my house. And I think doing it in an area where I'm living and I'm almost helping my community, for me, it was almost like if you are getting a big backlash on a door knock, all you can think constantly repeating in my head is I'm literally just trying to help people. And if that's all you're doing, it's like you've got no reason not to feel positive about it, even if you do get a door knock where someone is a bit, you know, funny with you. It's, well, I'm just trying to help people's other houses onto the next one. And I think if you just constantly repeat that in your head, I think most of it becomes a breeze because I've almost like tripled the amount of door knocks I'm doing since I've kind of had that conversation with Jack. So I think as... yeah I would always say that as most ted talks say you've got to kind of knuckle down to why you are doing what you're doing because I do think for some people obviously the money motivation will always be there but I think it only takes you so far and I think as well like the cliche of saying you know it's about the journey not the destination I think that's so true in estate agency because if you've signed contracts to be instructed on a like quite a high commission month you might look at the commission at the time and think wow when this comes in when this comes in but you've got Four months to a year of viewings, offers, sales progression. And for myself, I know for a fact, of course, it's nice to get that money at the end of the sales completed. But it's so much more rewarding actually handing those keys over to the buyer or ringing the buyer to say, we've actually completed. And then you're kind of on to the next one. So that journey for me is much more better than actually getting the reward at the end of it. I totally agree. I think you are right there. The money motivation is short lived. I'm just thinking about some bills, you know, I've got one that's due to land this month, and it's significant, you know, financially, it's a significantly rewarding some, but think about it I'm like when that when that lands I'm not going to feel any better any happier I'm not gonna I'm gonna but what I have really enjoyed is the process of taking that house to market finding the buyer negotiating the deal in helping the seller with everything that they needed to do in order to get to the place they're at today um and equally when that money lands I look at that and go well what does that money, how does that money serve me? Because I've always said this historically, you know, if you was, if that room that you were sat in right now was full of stacks of fifties, it doesn't make you happy. It just gives you the ability to do things with your life. Yeah. Differently maybe. So I look at it and go, well, what family holiday am I going to go on with my little ones and my other half? And, you know, what can it do to fulfill my life? So it's very true. I think those that are purely money motivated, there's something so much deeper than that, isn't there? Yeah, there is. And I think for me as well, like having been at quite my initial stage of the journey, I know for a fact when I get my first commission month, my initial thought would be like kind of cash flow, where do I need to put the money, whatever. But then also some of it will be like, how can I reinvest this in the marketing of what I'm doing to get more listings? And I think that's also key when you kind of sell a property. I know sometimes in the industry it's seen as like, Some people are unsure whether it's good to share kind of when you've exchanged on a property or when you've completed. Some people say, oh, like, I don't care, you've sold a property, blah, blah, blah. But I completely disagree with that notion because I think some people might want to do it to say, look at me, I've still sold a property. I don't see that. I see it as that we just sold this property. It's anyone out there who's got a similar property or any other buyer who's selling a similar property. So... It's almost like you cash that check, but then also how can I utilise this journey, what we've just done to help other people and get more business? So yeah, I would say that. Yeah, exactly. It's all marketing. The amount of living rooms I'm sitting in now where people are making reference to our social media content and they can see what we've sold and they can, they're embracing the tips and advice that we're sharing. And so, yeah, I call complete BS on anyone that tries to challenge that you're promoting that you've sold a property because like you say, you're calling out, you're calling out to those people that have got houses that are similar and you're demonstrating that you're able to follow through on your delivery. Yeah, exactly. And ultimately as well, like in the self-employed model, you're doing like almost, and it's not a criticism of high-share agencies, but if you are carrying it from initial appointment to the sales progression to everything, you've done a lot of work. Why shouldn't you shout about it? I don't, yeah, I've always not understood that really, but yeah. As Ryan Serhant would say, shout it from the mountaintops. I think at the end of the day, if you're succeeding, you're winning and you're getting people results and you're moving them on in their home moving journey and they're getting what they want from it. Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. I mean, there's our self-employed. I mean, we've always talked about this recently and we kind of say it's a bit of a cliche. You know, we don't get paid until we've sold it. I mean, it's as simple as that. So why wouldn't we put everything into it and, you know, put our own personal interest involved as well? I know I would always agree with that. And your livelihood hinges on it, right? Because although you are retaining a much more significant piece of the pie than you would have been on the high street, on the high street, you were getting a basic salary. On the high street, you would have got a commission out of the sale when it completes. But by comparison to what you can do now, it would be fair to say that it was quite a paltry sum. Yeah, absolutely. And I think ultimately it comes down to sort of like who you are as a person and what you want to do. That's why I'm never, ever, I mean, I will talk, in my evaluations, I often talk of high street agents really highly regarded because that, you know, what gets the sector going at the end of the day. And I think it comes down to personally whether it's right for you or whether it's not. I don't think there's a right or wrong. I mean, there's some clients that would probably, are better for high street agencies at the end of the day. I think you kind of have to, yeah, I think it just comes down to the individual, what's best for you really and what's best for that kind of, that property, yeah, that client, so. And you mentioned earlier, moving from high street to self-employed brokerage, you said very different. What would you say the significant differences are? So anyone that's listening in that's maybe considering it, what would you say that they really need to be aware of? What are the main differences? I would say the main differences are... Positive and negative. Yeah, positive. So I'd say starting with kind of the negatives, I would say if you are someone who is so used... The biggest change for me was not going into an office. I think that was the biggest challenge. I think because what we do, we're... constantly sitting on people's sofas talking to people chatting to people and if you fall out the loop of kind of you know seeing people talking to people which a lot of people do when they start self-employment because you're not even the silly conversation of being like how was your weekend on the Monday morning making people coffee you may be not having that as much unless you're kind of going out to an office and I think that was the biggest challenge for me it was kind of yeah transitioning from going into an office every day um chatting to people talking to people um because I'm quite a people person it was definitely I had the motivation I was getting up early just as much as possible and um I but then it was just kind of sitting at your desk on your own I would say you have to be prepared for that and you have to think about how you can do like how you can avoid that basically well I know now I always have like a couple of meetings in the week where it's having a coffee with either of another partner mortgage broker, stuff like that, because that'll keep me ticking. That'll keep me going for my normal appointments. I'd say that was the biggest change for me. But I guess that's a negative, but you can also turn it into a positive because to have that the freedom of being self-employed, I think, you know, I love the fact that we're really flexible with our appointments. I love the fact that, you know, People say, oh, but you work more at the weekends. I said, yeah, I do, actually. But I actually personally find some valuations are great on a Saturday, but often the client's only suggesting on a Saturday because he thinks I can't do in the week. So, for example, last weekend I had one and the seller said, oh, Saturday. I said, yeah, sure. I said, well, I can come late. And he said, well, I get back from work at 7. I was like, that's fine. I'll come at 7.15. He much preferred that because ideally he didn't want me going around on the Saturday. So I'd say, yeah, talking about that negatively into a positive thing, I think the flexibility of kind of working around the client, working kind of – not doing your nine to five because that kind of gets into a regimented thing. And also when it comes to stuff like sales progression, it's so much easier just updating the client when you've got the update rather than having to think, I've got to wait till then. Obviously if you're like, what's happened, things like that. But in terms of, any of the differences, obviously it's all on you. Like there's no one to, like obviously there's people to help and there's people to push you in the right direction. However, it's ultimately you to get up and go and get the business. So you've got to be prepared to put yourself out there. I would say, you know, you can't, you can't just rely on maybe as much as, and even for myself, this couldn't be more paramount because I'm in an area where I am surrounded by partners that are already existing at the Avenue. However, I'm still a strong, firm believer those opportunities are only going to arise if you're putting yourself out there anyway. You can't really expect it to come to you because otherwise, ultimately, you might put a few listings on and you might get a bit of commission, but ultimately, I think it's, you know, you're going to fail eventually because you've got to have the motivation to go out and get it. And that's why I kind of say, I come back to the thing where it's like, it depends on the person. Someone might prefer being in the high street where you're kind of consistently getting appointments because, I mean, like you'll know, sometimes it's being self-employed, SA agency, it's kind of, you're always in a state of flux, aren't you? It's always like up and down because some months are busier than others, whereas you've probably got a bit more consistency with high street. So I think if you understand that initially, it's pretty hard not to kind of fail really see I i don't entirely agree like I do agree that something better suited to high street but I think the months of flux traditionally I agree you know august will be a quieter month november december tend to be quieter um but I think it's about creating the momentum in the first place. So like we said to you when you joined us, I know you'd come from a different brand beforehand, so there might have been some brand recognition for your name, but you were moving into your hometown. So actually, in essence, starting from scratch. So it's about spending between six and 12 months creating the momentum. And I think if you then just keep that momentum turning, so for example, In November, I am very, and I've been like this pretty much since I started my career in 2004. I'm like it as a person, actually. If everyone else is zigging, I want to find a way to zag. And so I always had the attitude, especially when I became a branch manager, I always had the attitude with running the branch. And I have the same attitude now with running my local business and the avenue. When everyone else is looking at the quieter times and kind of going, oh, I'll dial my budget back on marketing. We'll rein it in because nobody's interested in moving now. I ramp it up. So my budget through July and August and my budget through November and December doubles. And the reason I do that is because I'm then going to have an exclusive space in the minds of my potential clients that other agents aren't occupying because they've decided to dial it back. And it's no surprise then that my first quarter of this year has been absolutely flat out because I've done so much of the legwork in November and December to get into the minds of those clients. I always find that September's are a particularly busy period for me as well for the same reasons. So I do think it's about creating a consistent rhythm and then maintaining that momentum. Well, I think there's always stuff to do, isn't there? I'd say that's one difference. There's always stuff to do, even if maybe... Well, like you said, in those months that you're kind of... the first three months or four months you said of starting the business in terms of you said that you didn't get many listings, but I guarantee you now you are absolutely to the wall, to the wall every day with kind of getting your name out there, doing the prospecting. So I'd say that's probably coming back to the difference, the leap. I'd say that's one good thing though. Like that's one good thing. As much as maybe you might think, oh, when you go to self-employment, you're not maybe putting as many properties in the market. I mean, the more good quality sort of, you're trying to, well, you want less property in the market, but more good quality ones and more good quality kind of overall sales at the end of the day. um but it comes down to yeah there's always stuff to do though isn't it that's the thing because and I guess that's a huge plus for someone so if someone is thinking about making that leap if you are kind of you're feeling maybe the going into the work having your diary already printed everything can feel a bit mundane maybe the fact that you know when you go to self-employment even when you're not busy kind of just putting loads of properties on, you're kind of like you said, working for the future to make sure. The fact that you went from like three listings or whatever, four listings. So then I think you said the next month it was crazy, like 16 or 17. And I think that couldn't be more, you know, that couldn't be more of a positive for me or for anyone kind of thinking about making that leap because, you know, it can all change in a matter. Well, like you said, one instruction changes everything. It's kind of that comes down to it. And then it's just about building that momentum forward. it's becoming, we say it all the time, don't we? So you would have heard this from Jack. You've heard it from me enough times and it's being boringly consistent because like you say, we launched July the 1st. I listed one in July, one in August, one in September. And September was that trigger point for me where I was like, something's got to give. And I made a few changes. And then October, November, December, I think we listed four in the October, if I remember rightly, six in the November, which is all good, four in the December. But it's still, for me, it felt like there was more to give. And then in the January, because of all the work that had gone into September, October, November and December, we listed 14. And that then, that month changed everything. And I think that for me is then the indicator that consistent effort, because it would have been very easy to look at that and go, this still isn't going the way I want it to. And I'll dial it back. But as I say, I removed the choice. It was like, right, all in. This has to happen. And I just dialed everything up. And equally, I am by nature, I'm not very good at being accountable to myself, but I'm very good at being accountable to others. And so when I made that commitment, I said to Hayley, my other half, who, as you know, is also an estate agent, this is what I'm going to do. Keep me accountable. And boy, did she keep me accountable. Yeah, no, I think that's really, really important. And I think it's, yeah, I think for myself as well, kind of making that leap with, because I'd already done kind of a year of self-employment and Obviously, to start self-employment, you have to have savings to make it work for a bit because you don't know when you're going to get that first sale at the end of the day. So for me, this time around, doing it the second time around, I knew almost it was like a last attempt in my head because I knew if it didn't work this time, I'd probably have to go back to full-time employment for cash flow reasons. So for me, it was almost like all or nothing. And having that mindset of all or nothing definitely was a positive because it was almost like you said, I couldn't not let myself kind of in my head. It's like it's not not going to work. It has to work. So I guess, yeah, that would be something that I would consider if you're kind of making that leap. Give it your everything, really. I think that's a big thing for you, though, Henry, and I'm recognising it more and more with a lot of the partners at the Avenue in general. You are someone who self-reflects, but you also take extreme ownership. I'm very similar. Although I'm very good at being accountable to others, I use that as my leverage. So I'm accountable to Jack as my business partner. I'm accountable to you to deliver for the avenue to make sure that you've got the resources and the tools and the support that you need in order to win and succeed. And I think everyone within the business has that level of extreme ownership and accountability over this. This is very much on me personally. There's no external forces. The market can change. People still need to move house. The brokerage is the brokerage, but I'm taking ownership for what I can control. And I think it's controlling the controllables. that you're very good at, but you're also very good at looking at it and going, what could I have done differently? And I love that about you. I think also that comes down to the people at the top, like you and Jack, because I would say definitely if I don't kind of win an instruction or I lose one or whatever like that, there's definitely a period of kind of a little bit of anger, a little bit of frustration. But the only reason I spend so long, not really long, but like the only point at which I self-reflect, the only reason why I do self-reflect is because ultimately there is part of me that does feel let down for you two, which I think the only way that happens is if you've got you two at the top at the end of the day. So I think ultimately, I'm disappointed sometimes that if, let's say, talk about kind of not getting there and what you can do to maybe turn it into a positive, you've got to care about the company you're working for. Ultimately, whilst we are self-employed and we have our own businesses, every partner has their own business. I think ultimately, to me, to make it really work, you've really got to push kind of. Well, for myself, I'm proud to go out there working for the Avenue. Like as much as people are trusting me and it's kind of, you've always come, I think, remember you saying to me, you know, they're trusting Henry as well. That's kind of what they're buying into. But I would say for me, a large part of it is the fact that I want them to trust the avenue. I want them to believe in the brand. And for that to work, I think as a partner, you've got to believe in the brand yourself. And the thing is, I'm not necessarily that there's a right or a wrong here, because there might be people out there who are incredibly successful self-employed estate agents who do make it maybe more about the... got to believe, well, it's just them. And they're probably just as successful. However, for me, I'll be honest, I push the Avenue just as much as I push Henry because I want them to believe in the whole package, I'd say. So I'd say that's more on an individual basis just related to the Avenue. I think that was key for me. I really appreciate that feedback. And I think community, culture, you know, one of our core values is together we're stronger. Yes, we're a group of self-employed entities, but there's no individual stronger than the group, right, at the end of the day. Because if you're having a bad day, I know you've got a good relationship. You onboarded with Emily and you and her get on very, very well. You've got Chris, who's one of your bordering agents. I know Jack and Emma border on to you. So there's a really good close knit relationship with a lot of people. Jake obviously is, I guess, part of the reason why you came into contact with us as well, because he had partnered with us and he had said good things. But I do strongly believe that the community and the culture and the togetherness is critical, regardless of whether you're self-employed or not. Yeah, exactly. And look how much like look how much we push other people's properties. And I think that's quite rare. That doesn't really happen in many self-employed models, nor does it happen. Well, I don't really know many of the self-employed who push other people's properties as much. You know, partners who are bordering us, partners who kind of want to get involved in the marketing. You know, you've got other partners who are kind of traveling completely out their area just to push another property. So that kind of to me tells you everything you need to know, really, because they're not really benefiting at all from it. But at the end of the day, if we're all kind of working together towards the end goal, it's only going to help brand awareness. And I think that is one difference and one thing that I did notice very early on from joining. People are always kind of happy to. I mean, to be fair, even like for valuations I go to because I think with valuing, as you know, sometimes it is a stab in the dark. So you do need that kind of community around you to say, hey, mate, what do you think of this one? I'm a bit stumped on it. Because no matter how many times someone tells you I've got 25 years, 30 years experience, it doesn't really matter. I don't really care. Because at the end of the day, you might have a property that's completely individual, hasn't been on the market ever. There's no comparables. There's only so much experience you can use for that, to be honest with you. It's more a case of actually reaching out. And I think that's, to be fair, I think that's one big change that I've made when I do my pitch. You know, Jack, I think with both yourself and Jack, I've always said, I mean, that same, I think the thing that always sticks in with me that you said to me was, you know, if you go in there, you get on like house on fire, it's great. They trust you. That's fine. You'll get those appointments. But the appointments where, you know, They don't really get on with you that much. They don't really like you, but they trust you. That's the appointments that I get. If they like you, it's every estate agent's job that they like, because you said just now that they trust you. It's every estate agent's job to get someone to like them, but the really good agents will get the client to trust them. You don't need a client to like you. You must have them trust you. Because how many do you go to where you come out and think, I don't know, I couldn't really, you know, it's getting blood from a stone, get him to talk. And then the call you say, we loved it. We want to instruct you. And I think that kind of, you know, fundamentally that's quite key for me. I think, you know, if you strongly believe in the core values of what the company is trying to do, I think you're always going to get, come back to that kind of trust element because yeah, I think that's got to be embedded initially. If you're going to make that leap, you've got to, well, it comes back to that, the why you're doing it really, doesn't it? So, It's got to flow through the entire group, hasn't it? I think that's quite a big thing as well, because you said quite early on, you're quite an emotionally led person. You're more emotion than you are logic, as am I. And I relied for too long in my career. I relied for too long on getting on with people. I'm pretty good at getting along with people. That's just the nature of us as people, right? As soon as that penny drop moment landed, it doesn't matter whether they like me. But they have to trust me, which is interesting because Jack is more logical and he is much him and I are very different in our delivery. As you know, we're very yin and yang. I'm a lot higher energy. Jack's a lot calmer. I absolutely know this for a fact. Clients trust Jack, but Jack works more on clients getting to like him because he believes he needs that. And I thought that's really interesting because actually I would forego whether they like me or not and just ensure that they trust me. Yeah, yeah. No, I completely agree. Yeah, it's kind of, yeah, it's really interesting when you think about it and kind of look down to it. Yeah, yeah. Henry, you've shared some really, really great insights and I think people listening in will get a lot from it. The final piece that I'd written down off the back of everything we've shared that I would just love for you to share a couple of minutes on is if there is anyone listening right now, the whole point of the Elite Agent Masterclass is to, if we can change one person, every time they listen to this podcast, one person can go out there and improve their customer's experience. They can improve their own lives through making a change that that takes them on a different journey or whatever else, what piece of advice would you give to someone that might well be considering either self-employed agency or that wants to level up their agency game? I would say in terms of leveling up the estate agency game, it's focus on the person, not the property, forget the commission, forget the property, try and get to like, you'll be surprising for anyone who is thinking about making that leap or anything like that. I would say the more you focus on the person, the more you focus on actually trying to help them, everything else for me kind of falls into place. And when you come back to what we were just speaking about then, kind of the trust element, things like that, I think if you kind of portray your message in a way where you honestly really do want to help them, rather than just, because it's easy to sit there thinking, oh, it'd be lovely to get this instruction, you know, maybe it's a big property, a big commission month, really focus on like what their motivations are, because it's likely if you focus more on them, you're going to do a better job anyway, because you find out exactly, and especially with us guys who our marketing is so tailored, It's kind of really getting to the bottom of what they kind of their opinion is and what they want to do and really knuckle down and kind of what property is, what kind of you were thinking in terms of moving forward. I'd say, yeah, focus on the person. And I think, like I said, everything kind of falls into place. And in my opinion, I'm really, really kind of give it your all. Be relentless. I'd say you've got to be relentless because if you're not relentless, it's not going to work. and ultimately they're kind of like a bit of a different one don't really like for me don't really care what people think and what people say because I think you're always going to be under scrutiny putting yourself out there constantly but if you you're a strong believer in you you believe what you do you kind of Like you've already asked yourself the question of why you're doing what you do. It's quite hard not to be relentless with it. I would say, yeah, but that would be me. I guess everyone is different, I guess, because I'm more like yourself. I'm more from the emotional point of view. Yeah, be relentless with it. That would be the key thing for me. Great piece of feedback. So be relentless. I suppose that is advice that you could offer across whether people want to level up their agency game, whether it be traditional, high street, online, whatever. But equally, if they're looking at going into the world of self-employed estate agency, being relentless encapsulates both, right? Yeah, absolutely. And I think if you're someone who wants to do, and I think that's the thing, I moved because it was a more a personal decision for me because I wanted to kind of, like I said, I made the move because I wanted to kind of carry on the sale initially. That was all I was thinking about in my head. However, having moved now, I am a strong believer in the service that we can offer is better it's as simple as that and it's you know and I think that I wouldn't have known that until I actually moved because like I said initially it was for me it was just about keeping that client because I wanted to build up the rapport and stay with them whereas for now I would say one of the biggest advantages for me is you can do a better job for the client it's as simple as that and if you're someone who believes in this agency and actually enjoys this agency and enjoys what the industry is all about, and you want to kind of make it better, I think that, undoubtedly, the service I can offer now people is better because I have the freedom to do it. And I think self-employment enables you to do that. Because whilst I'm still under the Avenue umbrella, I can be very flexible the way I offer my service, the way we do the marketing, the way we do everything, the sales progression. ultimately really up to you as long as that we keep the branding guidelines and marketing I think having that freedom to really that comes down to catering it completely around the client whereas there's no way I could have done that at high street agencies because there's lots of ideas that I did kind of suggest and it was kind of like we're not too sure about that so I think if you're someone who's kind of a little bit more creative with what you can do for the client it's a no-brainer going to self-employment and whilst it might seem a bit of a risk You're not going to complain about it when you're 80 or 90. You might as well just go for it. On that note, what a way to end the pod. What a brilliant share. Brilliant share. Love that. So that has been the Elite Agent Masterclass with the absolutely superb guest, Henry Teal. Loads to share. Henry, question for you for the guests listening in. If anyone is considering self-employed agency and they've really connected with your message, would you be happy for them to reach out to you to maybe ask questions, give advice, give a steer? Yeah, of course. Definitely. Without a doubt. 100 percent. Awesome. I have put you on the spot by asking that question. So you could have said no. So, you know, you weren't aware. Brilliant. Anyone that's listening in that's really connected with Henry's message and is curious about the world of self-employed agency and the journey that Henry's been on and believes that he might be able to give them a better insight into making that jump. Henry's contact details will be in the show notes for this episode. So do reach out. Equally, if you'd like to talk to me about all things state agency, then my contact details will be in the show notes as well. But for now, that is another episode of the Elite Agent Masterclass. Henry, thanks for joining me. No problem. Really enjoyed it.